Fracking the Burgh: How will it influence population growth? (Pittsburgh: leases, house)

[chielgirl]

Originally Posted by trackstar13

Yes Ingelwood is the current location of much of the fracking and this is a large area of land, about 1,000 acres I believe. However, they only have a few test wells now that have been fracked and they literally have thousands of wells on this land that have not been fracked yet. For oil fracking you do not need as much land as you would think. Considering how cheap land is in certain areas of Pittsburgh and the value of oil/natural gas, it is entirely feasible to buy some land and start fracking, even if that means knocking down some buildings or houses. Also, considering there is already fracking in the Allegheny National Forest I don't see why they wouldn't frack Frick, Schenley, or even on a smaller scale Point State parks. Here are a few examples of lots that could be fracked in the city, especially if they also look into adjoining properties:

1) 3.6 acres in Lawrenceville
5515 Butler Street, Pittsburgh, PA, 15201 - Industrial (land) Property for Sale on LoopNet.com
2) 5 acres in the Southside Slopes (because you have to purchase both lots)
Hackstown Street, Pittsburgh, PA, 15203 - Residential (land) Property for Sale on LoopNet.com
3) Heck in some areas of the city there are almost entire blocks for sale. According to the website listed below one could buy several blocks of lots in Hazelwood and Beltzhoover. One could also buy abandoned schools and adjoin nearby properties. The prices are very affordable also and if fracking were allowed it might actually be cheaper than many rural lots. Website: Buy in the Burgh - Municipal Properties Listing

I am sure if the fracking ban was lifted there would be enough available land in the city

I certainly hope that they don't frack the parks.
Or the city proper.
It's too new a technology to be messing with our living areas.

[baconlegs]

Originally Posted by new believer

I think a healthy mistrust of this industry is a good thing.

And the very last person I would trust is somebody who makes their living from gas drilling (that means you baconwhatever).

Wow, ok, come out swingin why dont ya? I'm just telling you how it is, but call me a liar if it helps you sleep at night. I'm the one telling you that the interst in horizontal drilling in Pgh is non existent. Im happy with that too. Oil and gas is heavy industry and relies on complex science to be successful. As is being said in this thread, there are a lot of risks and accidents do occur (there are tons of infractions but most are extremely negligible... But it serves to show that regulations are very high). I try to provide perspective for those that want to hear what drives the corporations. I recommend you not be so ignorant.

[trackstar13]

Here is an article specifically about the chemicals used in fracking:
http://ourlongmont.org/wp-content/up...tural-Gas1.pdf

This study shows that air pollution from natural gas wells may increase the risk of cancer:
http://cogcc.state.co.us/library/set...Kenzie2012.pdf

[trackstar13]

Well the frack is back and there was an article today in the Post Gazette about a Washington county family that received a settlement due to potential health concerns related to natural gas drilling. It was also very peculiar that the natural gas companies wanted a gag order even against the young children. Here are some excerpts and I posted the article below:

The hearing transcript, which provides details of the $750,000 settlement paid to the family, shows the Hallowiches reluctantly agreed to the terms of the settlement to remove their children from what they considered an unhealthy environment.

They also raised questions about how a lifetime "gag order," as the judge called it, included in the settlement that required the entire family to never discuss Marcellus Shale or fracking would be enforced against their then 7-year-old daughter and 10-year-old son.

James Swetz, the attorney representing Range Resources at the settlement hearing, then is quoted as saying, "I guess our position is it does apply to the whole family. We would certainly enforce it."

Confidential agreement should have been part of Washington County Marcellus Shale case record - Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

[trackstar13]

Wow interesting, it appears that new information has been released supporting the assertions of the Gasland movies.

The previously unreleased document from an employee at the Environmental Protection Agency’s regional office found that drilling or fracking, in which water, sand and chemicals are shot underground to free trapped gas, caused methane to leak into domestic water wells in Dimock, Pa. The findings contradict Cabot Oil and Gas Corp., which drilled in the town and said the explosive methane gas was naturally occurring.

“Methane is released during the drilling and perhaps during the fracking process and other gas well work,” according to the undated slide show prepared by the EPA coordinator in Dimock, who is not identified, for other agency officials. The report, obtained by Bloomberg from critics of fracking, is based on a chemical analysis of methane in wells. The EPA said the findings in the presentation are preliminary and more study is needed.

The internal EPA report concludes that the causes of gas migration could be drilling, spills or fracking. “In some cases the aquifers recover [in less than a year] but, in others cases the damage is long term [longer than three years],” the report says.

EPA official links fracking and drinking water issues in Dimock, Pa. - The Washington Post

[new believer]

Those are just "extremely neglible infractions".

Move along, there is nothing to see here (but there is alot of money to be made).

[UKyank]

On topic oddly enough, I had to attend a luncheon this afternoon as part of Pitt law schools Energy Law & Policy Institute that starts tomorrow http://www.law.pitt.edu/events/2013/...licy-institute & the topic of the Washington County family came up as it was in that news today & a professor gave synopsis as such:

Chris and Stephanie Hallowich successfully sued Range Resources for damage to their water supply. The Pennsylvania DEP couldn’t tie gas drilling activities on the Hallowich property to their specific claims of contamination & the only compound found above the MCL was manganese, though Range would still have eventually lost their court case because the 1984 Pennsylvania Oil and Gas Compact states that any contamination found above MCL at a site is automatically assumed the be caused by O&G activities unless it can be demonstrated that drilling activities were not at fault.

Oil & gas companies routinely get baseline water quality samples to protect themselves prior to operations; Range failed to perform these baseline tests on the Hallowich property, and that’s why they settled, not because the Hallowichs proved their case but that Range couldn't prove theirs. (This of course doesn't mean Range didn't contaminate but rather its unknown either way and skepticism on both parties is best).
In Pennsylvania nearly all claims of water well contamination filed in court or with the dep are rejected because the drillers take samples before they begin work and have the data to present to the DEP in case a complaint is made. This has since become standard practice across the industry.

Range made a costly mistake here either way.

The attendees look forward to seeing the specifics of the sealed records. & regarding the gag order on the minors as well as the adults they figured if a judge will grant you the moon may as well take it.

I personally look at all large scale industrial operations with skepticism as for their environmental impact however I also recognize that it's popular to bash any & all industry on the internet (or make terribly slanted documentaries) regardless of actual facts so I am equally skeptical of claims of industrial harm as well. Mining which has been much more widespread in the area has had negligible effects yet is much more invasive so until I hear otherwise I'm not too concerned with fracking.

[RyanR]

I'd give you Reps for that one UKyank but I have to spread them around first.

[I_Like_Spam]

Originally Posted by chielgirl

I certainly hope that they don't frack the parks.
Or the city proper.
It's too new a technology to be messing with our living areas.

When steel was a new technology, many of the facilities were placed in the city proper and it worked out fine.

Putting the employment opportunities near where the workers live, or where they can take public transportation to work, is good for the environment.

[rugerjitsu]

i think we should stop drilling for natural gas. we should shut in all the wells. the natural gas we have in reserves could supply our 300+million population for many years, right?? who's with me??