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Old 08-03-2013, 09:54 PM
 
12 posts, read 18,797 times
Reputation: 16

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ferraris View Post
Even $625 doesn't seem out of line, at least not illegally so. He doesn't need to show you bills to substantiate the costs. He could have done all the cleaning himself and "billed" himself $100 an hour for all you know, and that would be completely fine. He may have hired a cleaning service (or two) and had to not only pay them, but also take time out of his day to let them into the building.

I understand your frustration; I've been dinged for things like not cleaning on top of cabinets and ceiling fans or not dusting blinds. When you're facing a time crunch in moving, your focus is on getting your stuff out and getting into the new place ASAP. It's understandable to miss a few things in cleaning the old place.

Regarding the date on the check vs the post mark, the law isn't clear:



Since the law isn't clear, and you're trying to get the landlord on a technicality, I don't think it is worth pursuing. Chalk it up as a lesson learned and move on.

Were you charged more than half your deposit for those things? I paid $1,000 and he kept $625 of it. Any other rental I've had MIGHT charge $150-200 for a cleaning fee even if you left the carpets unvacuumed, dirty kitchen counters, dirty bathroom, etc. I at least made a valiant effort to clean as much as I could before I was contractually forced to go. The kitchen floor that I was unable to clean was made dirty by the movers as it rained the day I was moving. There were some footprints on the floor. There was no burnt on food on the stove either.
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Old 08-03-2013, 10:00 PM
 
43,011 posts, read 107,831,238 times
Reputation: 30715
Quote:
Originally Posted by MFFLinPA View Post
As for your question about the end of my lease, I told him I would leave on July 1 to make it easier to get moving help and a truck. Because I moved into the unit in 2010, the initial lease period of one year had expired and I was on a month-to-month basis.
June ended on June 31st, not July 1st.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MFFLinPA View Post
You weren't there.
I'm basing my opinion on your own description!
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Old 08-03-2013, 10:00 PM
 
12 posts, read 18,797 times
Reputation: 16
Reading some of these responses makes me glad I'm not living in Pittsburgh any longer. I was born and raised there and have been honest in my communications with this landlord. I thought he would be more fair because I base this experience on the ones I've had in the past. This move out is by far the worst. I'm glad I won't be back.

If he can charge me for things like that, perhaps I should send a bill to him for the lost books and shoes that were in boxes in the basement. The boxes were against a wall that apparently leaked and I lost all of them. He was advised about the leak and he did nothing about it while I was living there.

I might also point out that I'm not ignorant of the law as I was a legal assistant for more than 30 years. I just asked a question that appeared "murky" to me.
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Old 08-03-2013, 10:01 PM
 
12 posts, read 18,797 times
Reputation: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hopes View Post
June ended on June 31st, not July 1st.


I'm basing my opinion on your own description!
I wasn't aware June had 31 days, unless you use a different calendar. Mine says it ends on June 30 and my notice to him was that I would move out on July 1.
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Old 08-03-2013, 10:05 PM
 
43,011 posts, read 107,831,238 times
Reputation: 30715
Quote:
Originally Posted by MFFLinPA View Post
Mine says it ends on June 30 and my notice to him was that I would move out on July 1.
Regardless, my point is you are supposed to vacate BEFORE the month ends. You moved a day late.
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Old 08-03-2013, 10:49 PM
 
6,600 posts, read 8,946,790 times
Reputation: 4683
Quote:
Originally Posted by MFFLinPA View Post
Were you charged more than half your deposit for those things? I paid $1,000 and he kept $625 of it. Any other rental I've had MIGHT charge $150-200 for a cleaning fee even if you left the carpets unvacuumed, dirty kitchen counters, dirty bathroom, etc. I at least made a valiant effort to clean as much as I could before I was contractually forced to go. The kitchen floor that I was unable to clean was made dirty by the movers as it rained the day I was moving. There were some footprints on the floor. There was no burnt on food on the stove either.
I've been charged everything from $30 for minor damage of an apartment I lived alone in, to losing a full $2,500 between 9 of us living in a college slum house in Oakland.

The point is that from a legal point of view, you don't seem to have any standing. The stuff you described could easily take an entire day to do. If he has a high paying job he had to miss out on, he could value his time at a pretty high rate. If he also decided to hire an outside cleaning service, or rent equipment like a steam cleaner, that just further adds on to the cost. I do think $625 is expensive; I'm sure you would have done the same cleaning job for much less, but you didn't do it, so now you're stuck with the landlord's rates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MFFLinPA View Post
Reading some of these responses makes me glad I'm not living in Pittsburgh any longer. I was born and raised there and have been honest in my communications with this landlord. I thought he would be more fair because I base this experience on the ones I've had in the past. This move out is by far the worst. I'm glad I won't be back.
I don't think anybody is judging you, we're just telling you how it is. He is charging you a high rate, but not an illegal one.

Quote:
I might also point out that I'm not ignorant of the law as I was a legal assistant for more than 30 years. I just asked a question that appeared "murky" to me.
I agree. The law is "murky" on this topic. I don't think it's worth the cost and time to fight it.
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Old 08-04-2013, 05:30 AM
 
Location: 15206
1,860 posts, read 2,571,690 times
Reputation: 1301
You can always spend $1,000 -$1500 in attorney & court fees to take the landlord to court to get your $600 back.
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Old 08-04-2013, 08:07 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
1,304 posts, read 3,028,360 times
Reputation: 1132
Quote:
Originally Posted by MFFLinPA View Post
First of all, I'm not "looking for a loophole to stick to the landlord". I've been renting my entire life and never been charged like this before (I'm nearly 60 years old) because I'm a clean person. In fact, I've gotten money back from landlords who historically don't give refunds! I only want what is fair and these charges seem excessive to me. Do you regularly charge your tenants $625 upon move out?

You're some landlord!! I've never heard of anyone doing so much to clean, even after pets and after the tenant cleaned. It's obvious you don't like cats. Do you do the same amount of cleaning for dogs? I had an indoor cat so fleas were not an issue, which they are for dogs. And dogs have "accidents" inside the home. That requires even more cleaning. Our cat never relieved himself anywhere other than his litter box. Therefore, the carpeting was not soiled in that manner.

As for your question about the end of my lease, I told him I would leave on July 1 to make it easier to get moving help and a truck. Because I moved into the unit in 2010, the initial lease period of one year had expired and I was on a month-to-month basis.

You really don't like tenants, do you?
If your initial lease started on the first of the month and ended on the last of a month, then you could be held accountable for an entire month's rent despite when you give notice. The lease terms do not change, as you are simply suggesting because you want them to. Because you opted to "extend your lease" into the next month (July) with your 30 day notice, does not mean that you can violate the original terms of the lease. I believe that if the landlord would have chosen to do so, he could have charged you rent for the entire month of July. If you would have been my tenant (with your given "entitled" attitude- especially when you moved and left me with cat feces in my home), I would have probably charged you for the entire month of July rent.

As a landlord, I rent my homes to families who want clean, quiet, and maintained homes. My homes are not meant to be pet sanctuaries. I have rented to owners of both cats and dogs, and I will always choose the best tenants without pets first. Because of the added clean-up costs associated with pets, I will generally not have a "turnkey" property when pet owners move out. Cats are the worst (especially if the litterbox and clean-up was missed just once)- odors and dander are an absolute nightmare for the landlord trying to make his rental available quickly. Simply stated, I myself might consider renting to dog owner at last resort, never to a cat owner at any level. Too many cat owners seem oblivious to the fact that their pets are repulsive to too many of those who suffer from allergies and lingering odors.

Lastly, renting real estate is a business. Tenants are our clients and are a part of our livelihoods. Some tenants may become our friends, but most are our customers with whom we strive to maintain a positive rapport. It does not come down to "hating our tenants", but making sure that all parties follow the terms of our contract (the lease). If you try to look at your situation objectively, you will no doubt see that your landlord has been more than fair with you (especially when you fully consider that you had a pet, left the home less than clean, and overstayed into another rental month).
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Old 08-04-2013, 11:41 AM
 
5,894 posts, read 6,860,895 times
Reputation: 4107
Whether the supposed damage done & charged for is true is really immaterial to this case, the only relevant matter is that the landlord didn't return the security deposit within the required 30 days thus the former tenant is entitled to the entire amount (& possibly double depending on the courts disposition) as a matter of fact. You wouldn't need an attorney or anything as it is very straightforward. I would of course tell the landlord first to try to save yourself & him the trouble of having to go to court, but if you have to he has no defense assuming all you said is correct (ie you vacated July 1 & he mailed the check August 1 - 31 days after).

Quote:
(b) Any landlord who fails to provide a written list within thirty days as required in subsection (a), above, shall forfeit all rights to withhold any portion of sums held in escrow, including any unpaid interest thereon, or to bring suit against the tenant for damages to the leasehold premises.

Last edited by UKyank; 08-04-2013 at 12:04 PM..
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Old 08-04-2013, 11:59 AM
 
12 posts, read 18,797 times
Reputation: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Retiredcoach View Post
If your initial lease started on the first of the month and ended on the last of a month, then you could be held accountable for an entire month's rent despite when you give notice. The lease terms do not change, as you are simply suggesting because you want them to. Because you opted to "extend your lease" into the next month (July) with your 30 day notice, does not mean that you can violate the original terms of the lease. I believe that if the landlord would have chosen to do so, he could have charged you rent for the entire month of July. If you would have been my tenant (with your given "entitled" attitude- especially when you moved and left me with cat feces in my home), I would have probably charged you for the entire month of July rent.

As a landlord, I rent my homes to families who want clean, quiet, and maintained homes. My homes are not meant to be pet sanctuaries. I have rented to owners of both cats and dogs, and I will always choose the best tenants without pets first. Because of the added clean-up costs associated with pets, I will generally not have a "turnkey" property when pet owners move out. Cats are the worst (especially if the litterbox and clean-up was missed just once)- odors and dander are an absolute nightmare for the landlord trying to make his rental available quickly. Simply stated, I myself might consider renting to dog owner at last resort, never to a cat owner at any level. Too many cat owners seem oblivious to the fact that their pets are repulsive to too many of those who suffer from allergies and lingering odors.

Lastly, renting real estate is a business. Tenants are our clients and are a part of our livelihoods. Some tenants may become our friends, but most are our customers with whom we strive to maintain a positive rapport. It does not come down to "hating our tenants", but making sure that all parties follow the terms of our contract (the lease). If you try to look at your situation objectively, you will no doubt see that your landlord has been more than fair with you (especially when you fully consider that you had a pet, left the home less than clean, and overstayed into another rental month).

Given your attitude toward your tenants I would fight you in court just to spite you and I'm not a litigious person. You sound like you expect the tenants to follow the lease to the letter but give yourself some wiggle room on quite a few fronts.

First, my lease did not start on the first of the month so your argument falls there. I paid him all monies owed for rent and I did check with him before I paid it.

Further, I don't have an entitled attitude. I only want what is fair and reasonable and these charges do not seem fair and reasonable given the circumstances which, obviously, I did not make entirely clear. You make it sound as though we left cat feces all over the place and that is an absolute falsehood. The box was scooped just before we left and there were two clumps put in a shopping bag which was tied at the top then placed in a large, black refuse bag that was then tied and left in the garage. This had to be done as the weekly garbage pickup had already occurred and leaving the bags at the curb would subject them to being torn apart by the strays in the neighborhood. That had been a problem throughout our tenancy. I was attempting to be thoughtful to not only the landlord but the neighbors as well. How would you have reacted had I put them at the curb before we left only to have the contents strewn about the street? That would have been far worse. You are basing your opinions on the bad pet owners and I'm sorry you had to experience that. We were not one of those people at all. My rental history will vouch for that and I have the records to prove same.

Lastly, any reasonable, thinking person would would avoid viewing or renting a place where pets had been present if they have allergies to same. That's like living next to a forest but complaining because you have tree pollen allergies. Why would you do it in the first place?

We are quite far apart in both our understanding of this situation and that is obvious. I did contact an acquaintance from the Pitt Law School Legal Clinic. I will wait to hear what they have to say. There has to be some "fair and reasonable" standard that must be followed.

Last edited by MFFLinPA; 08-04-2013 at 12:03 PM.. Reason: Forgot to address on issue.
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