Will the apartment-building boom cause our declining neighborhoods to deteriorate faster? (Pittsburgh: middle-class, best neighborhoods)

[jay5835]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I think mid-century "remuddling" here did more damage than almost any city I've seen. I'm not even just talking about working-class areas like Bloomfield, Lawrenceville, and South Side. You can even find monstrous botches which destroyed the facade of a house in Friendship, Highland Park, Shadyside, etc. A lot of it leaves me scratching my head.

Do you have any pictures, or at least addresses, so we can see some of these "remuddlings"?

One of the most egregious "botches," at least in the East End, came during the 1970s (I think), when the owners of a number of foursquare houses had their porches torn off. Most left awful scars. You can't look at one of these houses and help but think how badly the house wants its porch back.

These porches, in addition to functioning nicely as porches, added a needed horizontal balance to the architecture of those houses. You can see a number of them on Shady between Wilkins and Forbes, and also in Friendship. Lately, new owners have begun to have porches put back on some of these houses. I hope everyone whose porch was torn off will have a new one installed.

[AaronPGH]

The only thing all these new apartments will potentially do is stop lower-end/mid-tier apartment rents form increasing as fast as they are now, and that's a good thing. A lot of my friends are being priced to the fringes of the city limits. More units = good, no matter what.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by jay5835

Do you have any pictures, or at least addresses, so we can see some of these "remuddlings"?

Here's one in Friendship. Here's two right next to each other. Here's one from Shadyside. Here's another. I can't find any in Highland Park at the moment.

As I've said in the past, Pittsburgh just loves (or rather, loved) slapping mismatched windows onto buildings. I've never seen it done to the degree anywhere I see in Pittsburgh. I find it especially funny as my neighborhood gets gentrified, as some people spend a lot of time getting period details right, but don't restore the original window openings, so they put ornate wood trim or wooden shutters on big horizontal sliding windows on the first floor.

[Moby Hick]

Originally Posted by eschaton

That said, I think people in Pittsburgh don't appreciate that in cities in high cost areas on the coasts, even the worst neighborhoods have few vacancies and high rental prices.

I don't think that's a reasonable comparison or a possible outcome for Pittsburgh. That kind of thing is only going to happen in a very few places where wealth, culture, and power all come together in a place where land is limited. For starters, the per capita income on Manhattan is more than double what we have in Pittsburgh.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Moby Hick

I don't think that's a reasonable comparison or a possible outcome for Pittsburgh. That kind of thing is only going to happen in a very few places where wealth, culture, and power all come together in a place where land is limited. For starters, the per capita income on Manhattan is more than double what we have in Pittsburgh.

I'm not even talking about Manhattan's remaining rough neighborhoods like Harlem. I'm talking about places like Newark or Bridgeport, Connecticut. They're undoubtedly full of rough cities with high crime, but you don't see the sort of gutted, empty neighborhoods you do parts of Pittsburgh. There's some abandonment, but even the worst neighborhoods have the vast majority of the buildings still standing (unless they were purposefully demolished by imminent domain). The regional population never fell, and as the surrounding suburbs grew in price, the poor pretty much concentrated there.

Regardless, my point is not that I think the scenario on the first page will happen, but I'm worried it might. Delevlopers know there is a good market for the high-end of rentals, but that says nothing about the market across the metro as a whole at all levels.

Still, others have mentioned how a significant number of the people moving into these apartments would have been going into the suburban complexes only a short while ago. I wonder if in another ten years the apartment complexes out in Robinson/Moon will be semi-sketchy, the way that those in the South Hills have become today.

[jay5835]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Here's one in Friendship. Here's two right next to each other. Here's one from Shadyside. Here's another. I can't find any in Highland Park at the moment.

As I've said in the past, Pittsburgh just loves (or rather, loved) slapping mismatched windows onto buildings. I've never seen it done to the degree anywhere I see in Pittsburgh. I find it especially funny as my neighborhood gets gentrified, as some people spend a lot of time getting period details right, but don't restore the original window openings, so they put ornate wood trim or wooden shutters on big horizontal sliding windows on the first floor.

Thanks, eschaton. Those are some primo examples of Felony Porch Removal.

The first is sad because it started with the nicest porch. "Here's another" may be the ugliest overall, though: what's worse than insult-brick?

But the saddest is the one in Shadyside. The three houses in a row wear non-clashing paint colors, so some consideration was given to how things look. The owners of the house you selected did further work in choosing complementary colors for their house. I hope they'll replace that awning with the porch the house ought to have.

[Tallysmom]

A lot of my friends have children who are young adult mid 20's somethings.... and they don't really want to buy a home. They would far rather rent. And rent forever. They've seen the parents nearly lose the home, agonize over finishes that need to be replaced, not be able to do the upkeep because they can't spare the cash, or are afraid to spare the cash (don't forget the huge recession hit most places much harder that Pittsburgh) and then get to see the parents go through it all with their grandparents.

A lot of younger people don't see much benefit to owning. Nice rental places area smart idea.

[Moby Hick]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I wonder if in another ten years the apartment complexes out in Robinson/Moon will be semi-sketchy, the way that those in the South Hills have become today.

Not in ten years, but that type of suburban development is by its nature cyclical regardless of what gets built in Lawrenceville. First, the buildings often aren't built of things that will last without high cost maintenance. Second, tt depends on cheap transportation by automobile and lower taxes. If the first one lasts, it won't be able to keep lower taxes because somebody will just go out a bit further and build a new suburb where the district has no legacy costs. If the cheap gas doesn't last, it becomes too expensive.

[robrobrob]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I'm not even talking about Manhattan's remaining rough neighborhoods like Harlem. I'm talking about places like Newark or Bridgeport, Connecticut. They're undoubtedly full of rough cities with high crime, but you don't see the sort of gutted, empty neighborhoods you do parts of Pittsburgh. There's some abandonment, but even the worst neighborhoods have the vast majority of the buildings still standing (unless they were purposefully demolished by imminent domain). The regional population never fell, and as the surrounding suburbs grew in price, the poor pretty much concentrated there.

Regardless, my point is not that I think the scenario on the first page will happen, but I'm worried it might. Delevlopers know there is a good market for the high-end of rentals, but that says nothing about the market across the metro as a whole at all levels.

Still, others have mentioned how a significant number of the people moving into these apartments would have been going into the suburban complexes only a short while ago. I wonder if in another ten years the apartment complexes out in Robinson/Moon will be semi-sketchy, the way that those in the South Hills have become today.

For the most part, suburban construction is the most desirable when it is new. Isn't Monroeville "semi-sketchy" now?

I think two factors contributed to our empty urban neighborhoods. 1. We lost a lot of population when the mills closed and no one could find a job. 2. The other thing is that our cost of living has been so cheap that people could afford the American dream and buy a home in the burbs (ex. being Penn Hills was the destination for years for he middle class in the Eastern half of the city, first the white residents and later African American residents. This was possible because our commutes weren't brutal.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by jay5835

Thanks, eschaton. Those are some primo examples of Felony Porch Removal.

The first is sad because it started with the nicest porch. "Here's another" may be the ugliest overall, though: what's worse than insult-brick?

But the saddest is the one in Shadyside. The three houses in a row wear non-clashing paint colors, so some consideration was given to how things look. The owners of the house you selected did further work in choosing complementary colors for their house. I hope they'll replace that awning with the porch the house ought to have.

This is another house I always see going down Friendship Avenue. It's almost certainly a rental now. The first two stories look very intact, but at some point the owner decided to tear off the entire roof and put that monstrous siding contraption on the top. It couldn't have been cheap, even if it resulted in more space for third floor units. I dunno what they were thinking.