Bad winters/ All wheel drive??? (Pittsburgh: luxury, contractor, costs)

[new believer]

Oh yeah, as far as snow removal in the city... Are you kidding? Mediocre at best.

[Aqua Teen Carl]

Originally Posted by Moby Hick

I see people spin tires a fair bit, but not to the extent that it's an $800 problem.

There has been times where I wouldn't have gotten home if not for snow tires. Totally worth the money.

[greg42]

You mileage (and whether or not you get stuck) will vary regardless of whether you have AWD/4WD, snow tires, both or neither.

Generally, for me, if it's so bad that I would get stuck (with front drive and all-season tires), I can find a way to not have to go out, or to go home early. And I'm not talking about a slow couple inches. But I can usually also drive well enough to not get stuck anyway. To get stuck, it would have to snow several inches and still not yet be cleared, somewhere on my way home. Essentially not going to happen.

Road clearing varies widely from place to place. It's certainly not city vs suburbs, although we've all heard the stories or experienced the poor conditions in the city. I live kind of in the sticks. My road is a state road. But the boro plows it in winter and it's one of the best cleared roads around. Sometimes we have to be careful about judging the conditions by our road, because if we go out to some other roads they'll often be worse.

And BTW, AWD, I wouldn't deny that it's nice to have. But it truly is not NECESSARY. Two different things.

[Moby Hick]

Originally Posted by greg42

You mileage (and whether or not you get stuck) will vary regardless of whether you have AWD/4WD, snow tires, both or neither.

Whether or not your vehicle gets stuck, is mostly beside the point if you're trying to get anywhere in a populated area. You could have snow tires, 4 wheel drive, and 12 inches of ground clearance. Nine times out of ten, you're only going to go up the hill as fast as the guy in front of you. That guy has a 1988 Cavalier with tire tread that barely passed inspection, lived in Florida for the previous 20 years, and just learned that you can't clear ice from a windshield very well if your best tool is a flattened Natty Light can.

[robrobrob]

If peace of mind comes with buying an AWD car then buy an AWD car. If not then you can buy a FWD.

My father bought a used FWD SUV and last year he thought that at most a he wished that he had AWD a few days.

[Tinare]

Originally Posted by greg42

And BTW, AWD, I wouldn't deny that it's nice to have. But it truly is not NECESSARY. Two different things.

I agree with this. I've had an AWD vehicle for 2 winters now. It's an on-demand AWD, so most of the time it's FWD. Prior to this (I've been driving for 30ish years now), I've only ever had FWD, and I've never used snow tires. Just all seasons. I never really had a problem. I like having the AWD available -- I do get better traction on snow covered hills, and I can make it up my steep driveway if it is snow-covered which is something I couldn't do in the past. But really, I think I used it twice, maybe, last winter, and only when climbing a hill that had some snow on it. Nice, but not necessary is my experience as well.

[greg42]

Originally Posted by Moby Hick

Whether or not your vehicle gets stuck, is mostly beside the point if you're trying to get anywhere in a populated area. You could have snow tires, 4 wheel drive, and 12 inches of ground clearance. Nine times out of ten, you're only going to go up the hill as fast as the guy in front of you. That guy has a 1988 Cavalier with tire tread that barely passed inspection, lived in Florida for the previous 20 years, and just learned that you can't clear ice from a windshield very well if your best tool is a flattened Natty Light can.

Classic. And often quite true.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by new believer

I'm wondering how many of the "you dont need AWD" responses are coming from people that actually have driven/owned an AWD vehicle?

I've lived her all my life and driven in Pittsburgh winters for 20 years. I bought an AWD Subaru about 10 years ago. Before that I only drove FWD sedans. The AWD is totally worth it for the handful of times you need it. Pittsburgh winters are unpredictable. We get snow (sometimes alot of it) and the terrain is hilly. You never have to worry about getting stuck with AWD and you never have to worry about climbing hills.

Yeah you can get by with a good FWD vehicle with good snow tires, but AWD is just way way better.

I dont think AWD vehicles are more expensive either. Buy used. I got a good price on a used Outback when i bought mine.

Just dont get too cocky because AWD drive doesn't help you stop.

I've driven AWD. We own one as a second vehicle. I don't drive it when the roads are bad. My FWD car does just fine. We own the AWD for another purpose entirely. I don't think the few bad days in the winter justifies the extra gas expense of driving an AWD vehicle year round. Our winters aren't that bad, unpredictable or not. I'm know how to climb hills with FWD and all seasons. I've only been stuck once in my over 30 years of driving and that's because didn't know that my tires were worn down (not from spinning but from just being too old).

[Noodlenoggin]

Originally Posted by greg42

And BTW, AWD, I wouldn't deny that it's nice to have. But it truly is not NECESSARY. Two different things.

Absolutely true. I've driven just about everything in Michigan winters. FWD, RWD, 4WD, AWD. Four driven wheels IS nice to have, and the best winter vehicle I've ever had was a big, old Jeep Wagoneer. I had it for one winter. I was quite able to get around most of the time in basic two-wheel drive sedans, with good tires on them.

Anecdote: I had a Lumina sedan with old summer-tires. Where I lived I had to go down a hill and make a left corner in the middle of it. I couldn't go slow enough to NOT lose traction and slide until my rear tire was resting against the curb. I'm talking speedometer-on-the-peg slow. I had a set of new all-seasons put on it, and I drove down the hill and around that corner with no problem whatsoever.

Saying you can find a way to not go out is one thing. Until you go to work on dry roads, and it snows 8" in the next 8 hours, and you have to drive 20 miles in the snow if you want to go home that night. Sometimes it's just unavoidable.

[greg42]

Originally Posted by Noodlenoggin

Saying you can find a way to not go out is one thing. Until you go to work on dry roads, and it snows 8" in the next 8 hours, and you have to drive 20 miles in the snow if you want to go home that night. Sometimes it's just unavoidable.

Eh, if it shows signs of snowing 8" we can usually bug out of here anyway. Plus that amount is probably enough to keep up with. Wouldn't be going home on 8" of untreated road in that case.

More like if it's going to put down 2-3" an hour, then there might be trouble getting home. Better off waiting at that point sometimes, unless they're forecasting 2 feet.