No expulsion for student who turned in knife at Fox Chapel football game (renting, school district)

[gg]

Originally Posted by Moby Hick

Handled correctly [which I don't think it was as I don't think the kid did anything worth suspension] after the kid gets a lawyer and goes to the press is not the same thing as an actual reasonable school administration.

It seems you don't have an understanding of a no tolerance policy. Once the student entered school grounds with the knife, which by the way was rather large and to be quite honest, I have no idea how someone wouldn't know they have that thing, but anyway, he broke the policy. There is no choice, but to suspend, if you have the policy in place. No choice! The compromise was the fact they will not put it on the student's record. No tolerance is simple. If you have a weapon and are on school grounds you are going to be suspended. The kid did okay considering the law that is written. He got a gift. Now if you want to challenge the rule of no tolerance then that is different, but in this case they gave the kid a break due to that law being on the books. I don't think most parents in the FC district want to change the no tolerance on weapons rule. Keep in mind the parents in the FC district are very much involved in what is going on. When there are meetings they are packed.

Anyway, it is cut and dry. I don't like what happened, but the rule is on the books. Very odd case having a student handing over a knife and then allowed to watch the game and later informed he broke a rule that is very strongly written.

Oh and no way in heck are the parents going to push this further if they are smart. They got a good deal and why mess with the possibility of it being on their kid's record? Would you? No thanks. Take that deal and move on.

[I_Like_Spam]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

It seems you don't have an understanding of a no tolerance policy. Once the student entered school grounds with the knife, which by the way was rather large and to be quite honest, I have no idea how someone wouldn't know they have that thing, but anyway, he broke the policy. There is no choice, but to suspend, if you have the policy in place. No choice!

At this point in time, the child's parents should probably just drop the matter as he was just kicked out of school for a relatively short period of time, and further litigation would just be a distraction.

However, policies concerning children that don't allow any flexibility based upon individual circumstances are pretty stupid. The teachers and administrators are supposed to be professionals who know the children, the parents and the community and should be equipped to judge each incident on its own merits and decide whether or not to sweep it under the rug or not. If their job in disciplinary matters is just to read the rules, and when the violation occurs, to chuck the kid out of school for 2 weeks, you really don't need to pick someone because of their professionalism.

From the information reported on this case, a verbal warning looks like it would have been sufficient as the child in question didn't look like a threat and the whole thing could have been handled without this big hubbub.

[UKyank]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

It seems you don't have an understanding of a no tolerance policy.

A way out for brain dead school administrators to excuse their lack of ability to use common sense in matters

I guess it conditions kids to think that the asinine TSA & Homeland Security provisions are normal too when they grow up

[villageidiot1]

Originally Posted by h_curtis

What do you mean the student didn't bring the knife onto school property? He did. Oh and it wasn't a "pen knife". It was a very large hunting knife. Believe me, the kid is probably happy. It will not go on his record at all. Believe me, that kid's parents are thrilled. It could have been expulsion and on his record. Pretty rare thing, but it happened several days ago. Not sure why they put it on the news now. Guess it was a slow news day.

I've never been to Fox Chapel's stadium so I was assuming he wasn't on school property until he entered the stadium.

I read the article and understood it was a hunting knife. I didn't state that it was a pen knife. I said I had routinely carried a pen knife to school when I was in elementary school.

I disagree with your opinion on the punishment in this case. A 10-day suspension for this student accomplishes nothing. There was no harm done. The student did the right thing and he is being punished for it. The only lesson here is authority can't be trusted.

[gmagoo]

Originally Posted by pghdude28

God forbid a pocketknife! Yet what have these zero tolerance policies accomplished?

Hard to say. Actually it`s impossible to know. It`s puts me in mind of those who say that the TSA hasn`t prevented one hijacking, shoebomb, etc. How would we know?

[zip95]

Originally Posted by r3dwolf

They also teach kids that the proper thing to do if you mess up is make sure you don't get caught.

Ummm yes? That would have been the proper thing to do... turn his butt around and go hide the knife in a car. The rules of the world are what the are. They are not subject to your personal beliefs and feelings about how things should be.

It really very simple. If an authority discovers you have a knife on school property you get suspended and weaken your future prospects... so why on earth would you purposefully tell an authority you have a knife... it's like anti-logic

[EDIT]
And another thing... of course a zero tolerance policy is correct. How hard is it to not bring weapons onto school property? You people act as if this is some huge burden! In these crazy days of Columbine and Newton, schools should put the safety of students first. Someone answer this, in your world of "common sense" (not "smart sense" mind you) who should decide where the line lies between "acceptable weapons on school property" and "un-acceptable weapons on school property"? Oh Lance didn't mean to leave that shotgun in his car... he says it's from his hunting trip and he's such a great kid... he would never lie and everything will be just fine...

No thank you...

If that kid was to lazy to turn around and walk back to his car and remove the 12 inch knife in his pocket, he deserves a suspension.

[hinsey86]

Originally Posted by zip95

Ummm yes? That would have been the proper thing to do... turn his butt around and go hide the knife in a car. The rules of the world are what the are. They are not subject to your personal beliefs and feelings about how things should be.

It really very simple. If an authority discovers you have a knife on school property you get suspended and weaken your future prospects... so why on earth would you purposely tell an authority you have a knife... it's like anti-logic

My guess the kid has now learned that honesty/responsibility when one makes a mistake is not always the best option. It still blows my mine that he turned it in and gets suspended. Fox Chapel may have helped build a corrupt CEO. I just hope the kid isn't too tainted...but then I am still holding on to my 44 year old idealistic views. ( Took me 9 years to figure out many adult views around me were screwy.)

[gg]

Originally Posted by UKyank

I guess it conditions kids to think that the asinine TSA & Homeland Security provisions are normal too when they grow up

This is true and I don't feel it will get better or it will change in our lifetime nor theirs. Fear is a very powerful tool and the propaganda that is spread by certain types of politicians to create more fear benefits them and makes us more miserable.

Personally, I don't have a problem with a no weapons rule on school grounds, but if the kid turned it in right away, I sort of don't like what happened, if he really didn't know he had that big knife and wasn't showing it off telling other kids he is the man because he has this knife on school grounds until he walked up to the metal detector. In a few days that kid will be back in class and it won't show up on his record at all. Colleges won't know it happened. Seems they enforced a rule that is on the books most likely due to parents wanting it there after these school shootings and hyped up mess, etc. It is what it is and it is all across the country.

[zip95]

Originally Posted by hinsey86

Fox Chapel may have helped build a corrupt CEO.

If they did, I'm sure they would be thrilled

Originally Posted by hinsey86

I just hope the kid isn't too tainted...but then I am still holding on to my 44 year old idealistic views. ( Took me 9 years to figure out many adult views around me were screwy.)

I think she's screwy. She thinks you're screwy and you think I'm screwy. So who determines who's screwy and who isn't. The answer is to standardize a set of rules everyone has to follow, but outside of that let everyone feel and do what they want as long as they aren't hurting other people. And for the system to work the rules can't be arbitrarily broken or left to the discretion of individuals who will apply their own personal feelings and ideas of screwyness...

they did the right thing

[hinsey86]

Originally Posted by zip95

If they did, I'm sure they would be thrilled




I think she's screwy. She thinks you're screwy and you think I'm screwy. So who determines who's screwy and who isn't. The answer is to standardize a set of rules everyone has to follow, but outside of that let everyone feel and do what they want as long as they aren't hurting other people. And for the system to work the rules can't be arbitrarily broken or left to the discretion of individuals who will apply their own personal feelings and ideas of screwyness...

they did the right thing

Agree to disagree. I think higher functioning agencies, societies, families, schools, companies can do better. And my screwy was seeing a well respected family member wish a POW dead because he was a n_____. There were others too but that was a real aha moment.