Downtown: Bus-free? (Pittsburgh, Liberty, McDonald: crimes, transfer, closing)

[UKyank]

Originally Posted by doo dah

Bus riders are the dregs of society?

Clearly all bus riders are not dregs, many that congregate at the stops on Smithfield & Wood streets however are, yes.

[CaptainPittsburgh]

I clicked on this thread to comment about how I think this is a great idea and will open up some good opportunities for future planning.

After reading some of these comments, I now feel more inclined to defend the people who catch the bus on Smithfield St. outside of McDonald's. They're just people, folks, not the dregs of society, hahaha. I have coworkers that catch the bus at that stop.

Sometimes reading this board makes me feel gross.

[Aqua Teen Carl]

Originally Posted by doo dah

Bus riders are the dregs of society?

No, but some routes are straight up rough and filled with crazy people. For some reasons Pittsburghers get mad when you point this out while other cities have recognized shady subway lines.

[UKyank]

Originally Posted by jay5835

Yes, quite well, thanks. See below. I'm sure 6th and Smithfield, where I get on and off the bus, makes your "dregs" list.

I am moby hick

[rockthecasbah121]

Depending on the structure of the routes and the actual drop-off locations, I don't think anyone will have to walk too much farther. Even if every bus was forced to drop off at the busway, there isn't a single place you would be going in downtown Pittsburgh that is more than 0.7 miles away. I assume most major routes will have atleast two stops, cutting that in half basically.

[pman]

"problem" poor blacks congregate on inadequate sidewalk space making suburban whites allegedly uncomfortable. fitzgeralds solution? move em to the fringes of downtow . meanwhile the ura is busy buillding a giant garage nearby at the former saks street. so big, in fact , theres isntenough street frontage to include an apartment building. somehow downtowns small streets need to accomodate more cars in its core but not buses. its like someone droze fitzgerald cryogenically in the 60s and just woke him up.
the right question to ask is who are these people, where are they going and where are they coming from ? are pats routes meeting their needs. shunting them aside for cars makes sense at the county level politically but it smacks of elitism, classist, and probably racism. god forbid patrons have shelter while they wait for their infrequent bus.
other cities dont stop undesirable subway lines outside of downtown. in the end the problem is they never built the spine line and lost all commuter rail. if the spine line had been built from downtown to east liberty as proposed buses would feed it there. since it would be rapid transit it would be roughly as fast as the busway. it wasnt built but instead the interurban trolley was put underground.

[doo dah]

Actually, I think downtown should be pedestrian only. Parking garages can be located on the outskirts of downtown and everyone can walk. We can narrow the streets to one lane each way, for bikes only, to get them off the sidewalks. Widen the sidewalks for sidewalk cafes. Why not think really big?

[rockthecasbah121]

Originally Posted by pman

"problem" poor blacks congregate on inadequate sidewalk space making suburban whites allegedly uncomfortable. fitzgeralds solution? move em to the fringes of downtow . meanwhile the ura is busy buillding a giant garage nearby at the former saks street. so big, in fact , theres isntenough street frontage to include an apartment building. somehow downtowns small streets need to accomodate more cars in its core but not buses. its like someone droze fitzgerald cryogenically in the 60s and just woke him up.
the right question to ask is who are these people, where are they going and where are they coming from ? are pats routes meeting their needs. shunting them aside for cars makes sense at the county level lolitically but it smacks of elitism, classist, and probably racism. god forbid patrons have shelter while they wait for their infrequent bus.
other cities dont stop undesirable subway lines outside of downtown. in the end the problem is they never built the spine li e and loat all commuter rail. if the spine line had been built from downtown to east liberty as proposed buses would feed it there. since it would be rapid transit it would be roughly as fast as the busway. it wasnt built but instead the interurban trolley was put underground.

I don't think anyone is alleging that all of these people are black except for you, and my guess is lots of surburban and urban whites, blacks, asians, and latinos all potentially have issues with the people we are talking about. A lot of these people have no business downtown and are just coming in to loiter. And for the record, as a surburban commuter, I rarely ever drive to work, and when I do, my car never enters downtown proper. The goal of changing how buses drive through the city should be to make those routes reach their destinations faster, which may entice more people to utilize them who are currently driving.

[UKyank]

Originally Posted by pman

"problem" poor blacks congregate on inadequate sidewalk space making suburban whites allegedly uncomfortable...

Clearly this is it

Why do you think it's black people? Sounds a bit racist to me

[ctoocheck]

Originally Posted by doo dah

Actually, I think downtown should be pedestrian only. Parking garages can be located on the outskirts of downtown and everyone can walk. We can narrow the streets to one lane each way, for bikes only, to get them off the sidewalks. Widen the sidewalks for sidewalk cafes. Why not think really big?

I agree with this. People still want to build more parking in the middle of downtown - that's going to increase congestion more than anything, with cars coming from all directions into the middle of downtown. If more garages are built, they should be on the edges, and pricing should be adjusted accordingly (the underused "Grant Street Transportation Center" garage should be cheaper than the one at Theater Square. Similarly, San Francisco has successfully implemented smart parking price adjustments based on demand)

If we are to restrict buses to near edges, I would like to see perhaps Liberty-Blvd of the Allies-Grant be those edge streets. Better yet would be separating bus and car traffic, either with bus-only streets (Smithfield would be a good candidate) or separated bus lanes along all such streets.

Even more daring would be making Liberty (and maybe another street) into a "bus mall", not dissimilar from Portland. Nearly all the buses would all go down here, and stops would be spaced and designated for certain groups of buses. Sidewalks and such could be improved, and most auto traffic prohibited during the day.