Pittsburgh Experiencing a Boom From Residential Investors (insurance, appliances)

[Moby Hick]

Originally Posted by airwave09

...And?

They're very nice, except for all the wires.

[robrobrob]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

Jesus Christ, people. I wasn't saying I would personally ONLY spend $1,000/yr. in maintenance/renovations over the course of 20 years of homeownership. I was just throwing random figures out there to make the math a bit easier. I realize I'll be spending a few THOUSAND annually on repairs/updates.

I understand that you want to buy a home ASAP. However, I am just pointing out that repairs pop up fairly frequently. And for the most part repairs cost the same whether you are living in a 50,000 house or a 500,000 house. Within the past year we have done insulation, a shed, some landscaping, siding, a new dryer, a hot water heater, some paint, a new lawn mower. It really does add up fast. Most years a few thousand is probably low. Especially if you actively try and renovate a fixer.

Do you even have tools yet? It takes a few years to accumulate a decent set of tools.

[Copanut]

Originally Posted by robrobrob

I understand that you want to buy a home ASAP. However, I am just pointing out that repairs pop up fairly frequently. And for the most part repairs cost the same whether you are living in a 50,000 house or a 500,000 house. Within the past year we have done insulation, a shed, some landscaping, siding, a new dryer, a hot water heater, some paint, a new lawn mower. It really does add up fast. Most years a few thousand is probably low. Especially if you actively try and renovate a fixer.

Do you even have tools yet? It takes a few years to accumulate a decent set of tools.

As my wife would say, you don't need a tool, you are one. Not referring to SCR. It's sad when your Christmas present is a leaf blower, even sadder is when you like it!

Damn, I miss my condo.

[eschaton]

SCR, if you want to buy a house which needs minimal repair, and you're willing to stay put for twenty years, I suggest you buy something in Sheraden. You can still get great houses for less than $50,000. Two decades just might be enough time for the area to get desirable again as well, provided Pittsburgh does take off like a rocket. Certainly if we hit "East Coast" housing cost levels even if Sheraden is the ghetto by then, you'll still be able to sell for $200,000 to $300,000 (before even accounting for inflation).

[gortonator]

Originally Posted by ny789987

Pittsburgh is a million times cheaper than NYC/LA/SoCal/DC/Boston. Sure, Pittsburgh is more expensive than many other flyover cities, but that is because Pittsburgh is more interesting than those places. It is scenic, has better access to the outdoors, and is more culturally interesting. You are going to pay a premium for that. This isn't Dayton.

Precisely. Comparing Pittsburgh proces to the national average is mostly meaningless. To a transplant like me, I'm still stunned that you can buy a respectable house here with great potential for $50k. In Sydney, I couldn't buy a single car garage for that. In the suburbs ....

[Copanut]

Originally Posted by gortonator

Precisely. Comparing Pittsburgh proces to the national average is mostly meaningless. To a transplant lile me, I'm still stunned that you can buy a respectable house here with great potential for $50k. In Sydney, I couldn't buy a single car garage for that. In the suburbs ....

Ah, a wise man. This area is SO affordable, I rest my case.

[szug-bot]

i think what SteelCityRising means is FLIPPING a house. and yes, of course it makes sense to do that and sell it in a condition that is attractive to a buyer.

but included in his posts is the notion of getting in, sitting on it, then selling months later.

the first time i lived in Fairfax County, VA, in the very early 90s (before the dawn of grunge and when Seattle ruled the world!), this was understood as what you must do, especially if you were married and planned. back to our regularly scheduled program.

[ferraris]

Originally Posted by selltheburgh

Or bump your price up a bit so you aren't competing with investors.

This will only get you so far. As I said, I was told I actually did outbid the investors on one house, but they still chose the investor because it was a "cash, no inspection" deal. And with another home a deal was struck in less than 24 hours, before I even had the chance to submit a bid. The average buyer just can't match the speed of a cash deal, nor the riskiness of not making the deal contingent on an inspection.

Though I guess in a way I ultimately did end up doing what you suggested. I'm sure if my house was listed at $30K instead of $50K that it would have made sense to investors. It took a higher list price (and a seller that needed to hit that price) to get me to bid above the investor range. As an individual, it's just tough to stomach bidding 40% extra in a "best and highest" situation when you may not actually need to.

To be clear though, I'm not advocating that anything needs to be done about this legally; I'm just trying to illustrate that it can be frustrating. Home buying is one of the few areas where the average joe competes directly with businesses.

[ElijahAstin]

Originally Posted by szug-bot

i think what SteelCityRising means is FLIPPING a house. and yes, of course it makes sense to do that and sell it in a condition that is attractive to a buyer.

but included in his posts is the notion of getting in, sitting on it, then selling months later.

the first time i lived in Fairfax County, VA, in the very early 90s (before the dawn of grunge and when Seattle ruled the world!), this was understood as what you must do, especially if you were married and planned. back to our regularly scheduled program.

The issue I take with SCR's home ownership philosophy is that the only reason he seems to be against "flippers" is that they make life personally inconvenient for him. He doesn't seem to have an issue with any other facet of our mixed economy. Otherwise, I wouldn't fault him for his opinion (even though I'd still disagree with it).

What is it in his mind that makes a home so special? The rationale du jour appears to be that shelter is a basic necessity. Fair enough. So what about people who make a profit on food? Supermarkets are basically "food flippers." Food is something that should be eaten and enjoyed, not sold at a markup so some greedy green grocer can make a fast buck. What about fancy restaurants that turn that food into haute cuisine and then charge so much that only elitist East End aristocrats can afford to enjoy it? See where I'm going here?

Of course, we don't see SCR complain about these things because he and his partner can ostensibly afford not only food for their refrigerator, but the occasional to semi-frequent fancy dinner. Before SCR goes on a rampage about how this isn't an apropos comparison, I'll take this time to remind him that deep poverty-related hunger remains a shockingly huge issue in a country with a per capita GDP as high as ours.

In SCR's defense, attaining home-ownership is probably going to be a struggle for most members of our generation, and as much as I can't stand when he stands on top of these self-righteous soapboxes, rising property prices relative to a decreased standard of living is no laughing matter. But just like lashing out at grocers and fine restaurant proprietors is misplaced indignation in the face of a very real problem, so too is broadly attacking flippers and landlords, not to mention making odd/laughably false promises to donate any appreciation you do enjoy on your future home above an "acceptable rate" to charity.

Are some flippers/landlords greedy/predatorial? No doubt. But buying a fixer-upper, quickly renovating it, and putting it back on the market with the hope of making a profit is a risk-inherent process that leads to huge losses perhaps as frequently as huge gains. For most of these people, this is a living, no more or less so than being a landscaper or lawyer or food deliverer or any other fricking profession.

[Copanut]

Originally Posted by HeavenWood

. But buying a fixer-upper, quickly renovating it, and putting it back on the market with the hope of making a profit is a risk-inherent process that leads to huge losses perhaps as frequently as huge gains. For most of these people, this is a living, no more or less so than being a landscaper or lawyer or food deliverer or any other fricking profession.

Hey, pretty smart for a stinkin' guy from Philly.