Pittsburghers thoughs on more tech jobs/workers (Robinson Township, Denver: 2013, apartment complex)

[Goodjules]

Originally Posted by Aqua Teen Carl

Well there's another side to that equation too. Big employers use H1-B's, permatemp work, and bring in workers from India to pay them peanuts. When they hire tech workers "full time" that they want to invest in them and pay them a little more. But what's a step up from peanuts? Far less than what you'll get on the coastal cities.

It's not politically correct to say this, but it is a harsh reality: Indians here in Pittsburgh are working tech jobs for places like major banks but yet live 6 people to a 1 bedroom apartment in the South Hills. Many of these dudes are working on H1-B's, and employers really have them by the balls. "Be loyal and obedient and be happy with your pay or else I'll ship you back to a third world country" is an extreme motivator.

To answer your question: I DO see this changing if startup culture becomes huge. Startups have to fight for talent, and to attract talent you have to pay them well. Right now, there are pockets of this and as soon as the jobs go live they are snatched up immediately (and rightfully so).

That's the dirty underside of Silicon Valley too. I've heard that tech companies are pushing for the H1-B's not because there isn't enough talent in the US, but because they want tech salaries to go down overall, thus reducing their cost of doing business and getting even greater profits. Unbelievable-not.

I have a friend who was in a very senior position at one of the tech giants. She told me that when she started all her staff was based in the US in Santa Clara. As of about two years ago most of her staff was in the Phillipines and India. She had to be available 24/7 because of the time differences. She left the company a few years ago and works in a different industry now.

Another dirty secret is that huge numbers of workers are freelance so that the companies don't have to pay benefits and can get rid of them quickly if they need to. I have another friend who is the admin assistant to a very senior person at Google. She makes good money, gets lots of the perks (employee luxury buses, free gourmet food, onsite gym…) but she is not an employee. She has worked for this guy for years, following him from company to company. One of his requirements in accepting the position at Google was that they hire her as his assistant. Even with that, she is still not an employee, just a contract worker. She does get health insurance so she doesn't mind. I'm just using her situation as an example of how jobs are not what they seem these days.

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by Goodjules

I have a friend who was in a very senior position at one of the tech giants. She told me that when she started all her staff was based in the US in Santa Clara. As of about two years ago most of her staff was in the Phillipines and India. She had to be available 24/7 because of the time differences. She left the company a few years ago and works in a different industry now.

Sounds about right. My father had a great job with IBM in Scranton, PA for a number of years before having to train his incoming lower-paid Indian counterparts to replace him in order to be eligible for his severance package.

[Aqua Teen Carl]

Originally Posted by Goodjules

Another dirty secret is that huge numbers of workers are freelance so that the companies don't have to pay benefits and can get rid of them quickly if they need to. I have another friend who is the admin assistant to a very senior person at Google. She makes good money, gets lots of the perks (employee luxury buses, free gourmet food, onsite gym…) but she is not an employee. She has worked for this guy for years, following him from company to company. One of his requirements in accepting the position at Google was that they hire her as his assistant. Even with that, she is still not an employee, just a contract worker. She does get health insurance so she doesn't mind. I'm just using her situation as an example of how jobs are not what they seem these days.

Yes exactly (this is what I meant by "permatemp"). Another unspoken perk is the fact that "contracting" workers gives companies a huge tax break on top of things you mentioned.

These types of things are what makes me question what politicians and the media mean when they say "we are no longer in a recession because of jobs". When you drastically change the definition of what constitutes a job, it turns out that the country isn't a prosperous as it looks on paper.

[gortonator]

Originally Posted by Aqua Teen Carl

There's one massive elephant in the room when it comes to any tech related field in Pittsburgh that few want to talk about: the main reason tech jobs have exploded in Pittsburgh is because you can literally pay people 1/2 the salary you can on the coastal cities. A software developer will easily make 6 figures in Boston and here they will be lucky to get out of the 40's here.

I can assure you that, for the folks I know who work at major hi-tech companies in town, this is not the case. 6 figuers is, and these are people in their late 20s with masters and a couple years experience.

There's 'hi-tech, and maybe not so 'hi tech' perhaps.

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by Aqua Teen Carl

Yes exactly (this is what I meant by "permatemp"). Another unspoken perk is the fact that "contracting" workers gives companies a huge tax break on top of things you mentioned.

These types of things are what makes me question what politicians and the media mean when they say "we are no longer in a recession because of jobs". When you drastically change the definition of what constitutes a job, it turns out that the country isn't a prosperous as it looks on paper.

Income gap called hazard | TribLIVE

This is our new future. A relatively small upper-class of Americans that isn't expanding greatly in terms of either raw numbers or percentage of the overall population is becoming even wealthier while the rest of us remain relatively flat over the years. Instead of hiring Joe Smith two blocks away, Mr. 1% would rather hire someone from a third-world country, pay them half as much, and reap even greater profits so instead of having a $10,000,000 net worth they can have a $15,000,000 net worth. Greed. Pure avarice at its finest.

[AaronPGH]

It's good for the time being, we have the space. But there will be a tipping point that hits where it starts to suck the life out of the city. Most of the friends who have been in San Francisco for 10+ years are really starting to feel the pain of Silicon Valley moving into the city with all of its money. It was always expensive, but now it's starting to become impossible. Lots of talk of all of them moving. And these are the freaks, weirdos and homos that make all the cool **** happen there. You lose that, and it's no longer SF.

Pittsburgh has a similar (albeit smaller) vibe going on. Lots of weirdo artists and opportunities for people to execute any dream they want here for not a lot of startup cash. It's fine for the time being, but if this were to exponentially increase then the same market pressures could happen here.

[Goodjules]

Originally Posted by gortonator

I can assure you that, for the folks I know who work at major hi-tech companies in town, this is not the case. 6 figuers is, and these are people in their late 20s with masters and a couple years experience.

There's 'hi-tech, and maybe not so 'hi tech' perhaps.

There are plenty of people in tech that make well over six figures. It's why rents and home prices are so astronomical in Silicon Valley and SF. I was simply pointing out that the employers are doing everything in their power to avoid paying those salaries whenever possible.

I have another friend who is a paralegal without a college degree (she does have 20+ years of experience) who works in the legal dept. of a major bio-tech company and she makes six figures. The lawyers make WAY more than she does.

[Goodjules]

Originally Posted by Aqua Teen Carl

Yes exactly (this is what I meant by "permatemp"). Another unspoken perk is the fact that "contracting" workers gives companies a huge tax break on top of things you mentioned.

These types of things are what makes me question what politicians and the media mean when they say "we are no longer in a recession because of jobs". When you drastically change the definition of what constitutes a job, it turns out that the country isn't a prosperous as it looks on paper.

I agree!

[gortonator]

Originally Posted by Goodjules

There are plenty of people in tech that make well over six figures. It's why rents and home prices are so astronomical in Silicon Valley and SF. I was simply pointing out that the employers are doing everything in their power to avoid paying those salaries whenever possible.

Absolutely, i have many friends in Silicon Valley (seemingly half my old team went there 3 years ago!) - and many of the folks in hi-tech startups and orgs in Pittsburgh get well over 6 figures too. I was on a bus last week with a bunch of CMU students discussing interviews at Amazon and Google (here). Common wisdom was that a these places pay $120K plus bonus/stocks for new grads (I'm assuming post-graduate). This town is not a hi-tech, low pay wasterland.

[Goodjules]

Originally Posted by AaronPGH

It's good for the time being, we have the space. But there will be a tipping point that hits where it starts to suck the life out of the city. Most of the friends who have been in San Francisco for 10+ years are really starting to feel the pain of Silicon Valley moving into the city with all of its money. It was always expensive, but now it's starting to become impossible. Lots of talk of all of them moving. And these are the freaks, weirdos and homos that make all the cool **** happen there. You lose that, and it's no longer SF.

Pittsburgh has a similar (albeit smaller) vibe going on. Lots of weirdo artists and opportunities for people to execute anything dream they want here for not a lot of startup cash. It's fine for the time being, but if this were to exponentially increase then the same market pressures could happen here.

I think it's a long way off before Pittsburgh has those issues simply because there are so many marginal neighborhoods that would have to gentrify before there were literally no affordable areas in a 50 mile radius, which is pretty much the case in the SF Bay Area these days. None of my Bay Area friends could afford to buy or rent the homes they live in at today's prices. Everyone I know there who has lost their housing recently had to leave the area to find something they could afford. If I still had my home with the mortgage from 1987, I probably wouldn't have moved away. But I got divorced and was paying rent in SF. If I ever wanted to retire I needed to cut my expenses. I'm very happy with my decision to move here, but I'll admit that it would be nice to still have that house in the Bay Area.

One of the big reasons I chose Pittsburgh was that it does have that vibe you mentioned.