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Old 01-30-2014, 10:09 PM
 
Location: Kittanning
4,692 posts, read 8,986,882 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfUm View Post
As the lower North Side continues to gentrify, the area's poor will be displaced, and I'm of the opinion that many of them will go to Marshall-Shadeland and Perry South.
I think that already happened a long time ago; that or the neighborhoods were already poor and blighted, because it seems like so much of what stands in these neighborhoods today is abandoned or dilapidated or both. Where exactly are the poor going to move into - an abandoned house? Then take the sheer amount of urban prairie in these neighborhoods, great empty parcels where things were torn down. It takes a long decline for neighborhoods to reach that point. Have you seen Woods Run lately? I walked Woods Run Ave., and on the surface it appears that many of the homes might be occupied, but talk to some of the people who live there and you quickly learn how many homes are vacant and uninhabitable, and why.
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Old 01-30-2014, 10:32 PM
 
Location: roaming about Allegheny City
654 posts, read 940,356 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PreservationPioneer View Post
I think that already happened a long time ago; that or the neighborhoods were already poor and blighted, because it seems like so much of what stands in these neighborhoods today is abandoned or dilapidated or both. Where exactly are the poor going to move into - an abandoned house? Then take the sheer amount of urban prairie in these neighborhoods, great empty parcels where things were torn down. It takes a long decline for neighborhoods to reach that point. Have you seen Woods Run lately? I walked Woods Run Ave., and on the surface it appears that many of the homes might be occupied, but talk to some of the people who live there and you quickly learn how many homes are vacant and uninhabitable, and why.
Well, there are a lot of poor people on the lower North Side, and I think they'd prefer to stay in a part of town they're familiar with rather than move to some suburb such as McKees Rocks or Penn Hills. Sure, certain suburbs will absorb many of the poor, but many will also relocate to different, less costly city neighborhoods. With many of the other North Side neighborhoods either gentrifying or improving (and becoming more expensive), they will be left with few options other than Marshall-Shadeland, Perry South, and Spring Garden (if there is anything actually livable for rent there by this time).

Marshall-Shadeland, Perry South, et al are poor and dilapidated, but I haven't noticed that much urban prairie or abandoned homes, particularly in the former. They're nothing like Spring Garden, of course. And yes, I've walked Woods Run and it doesn't seem that bad; I didn't know so many homes there were abandoned.
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Old 01-30-2014, 11:27 PM
 
6,596 posts, read 8,914,401 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfUm View Post
These are the reasons why I just can't see homes in Marshall-Shadeland, Perry South, Elliott, etc. selling for $150K or more, even in the most optimistic of circumstances for Pittsburgh.
I'll dig this thread up in 20 years and we'll see . I think we basically agree with the exception of my "most optimistic scenario" being even more optimistic than yours.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PreservationPioneer View Post
I think that already happened a long time ago; that or the neighborhoods were already poor and blighted, because it seems like so much of what stands in these neighborhoods today is abandoned or dilapidated or both. Where exactly are the poor going to move into - an abandoned house? Then take the sheer amount of urban prairie in these neighborhoods, great empty parcels where things were torn down. It takes a long decline for neighborhoods to reach that point. Have you seen Woods Run lately? I walked Woods Run Ave., and on the surface it appears that many of the homes might be occupied, but talk to some of the people who live there and you quickly learn how many homes are vacant and uninhabitable, and why.
This is a pretty good point, PP. It's not like poor people create the sort of demand that entices landlords to rehab buildings, let alone construct new ones. I suppose the worst case scenario would be that the working class people living in Brightwood and Perry South now get displaced by people living in poverty. I really don't think that's too likely though, since the working class people would have to leave by choice and en masse for that to happen.
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Old 02-01-2014, 04:00 PM
 
Location: roaming about Allegheny City
654 posts, read 940,356 times
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Originally Posted by ferraris View Post
I'll dig this thread up in 20 years and we'll see . I think we basically agree with the exception of my "most optimistic scenario" being even more optimistic than yours.


Well, perhaps you'll be right about Marshall-Shadeland, considering the neighborhood's convenient location and decent to good housing stock (like this Victorian beauty on California Ave. http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/23...11499316_zpid/). If they got their crime problem cleaned up a bit, I'd have no problem living there. Given enough time, perhaps it will become a safe, stable neighborhood somewhat similar to Brighton Heights or Observatory Hill, only a bit more dense. In that event, prices will rise significantly, as people will be attracted to the neighborhood.
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Old 02-02-2014, 05:29 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
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I honestly can't believe the North Side hasn't been gobbled up. It is the prime location.
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Old 02-02-2014, 05:50 PM
 
1,010 posts, read 1,388,584 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PreservationPioneer View Post
I think that already happened a long time ago; that or the neighborhoods were already poor and blighted, because it seems like so much of what stands in these neighborhoods today is abandoned or dilapidated or both. Where exactly are the poor going to move into - an abandoned house? Then take the sheer amount of urban prairie in these neighborhoods, great empty parcels where things were torn down. It takes a long decline for neighborhoods to reach that point. Have you seen Woods Run lately? I walked Woods Run Ave., and on the surface it appears that many of the homes might be occupied, but talk to some of the people who live there and you quickly learn how many homes are vacant and uninhabitable, and why.
The city has caught up on demolition of these neighborhoods. Not many vacant homes nor many for sale. The bad element is getting forced out to the burbs.
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Old 02-02-2014, 06:19 PM
 
Location: Mid-Atlantic
12,529 posts, read 17,443,200 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zman63 View Post
The city has caught up on demolition of these neighborhoods. Not many vacant homes nor many for sale. The bad element is getting forced out to the burbs.
To be sure, it's so hard to get a good butler these days.
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Old 02-02-2014, 07:57 PM
 
Location: Kittanning
4,692 posts, read 8,986,882 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zman63 View Post
The city has caught up on demolition of these neighborhoods. Not many vacant homes nor many for sale. The bad element is getting forced out to the burbs.
Demolition doesn't create liveable housing. They are pushed out, because the housing is gone or uninhabitable, not because the neighborhoods have improved. Having fields of empty land is not part of the positive evolution of a neighborhood, although that may have been the city's goal.
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Old 02-02-2014, 08:51 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
14,360 posts, read 16,875,553 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PreservationPioneer View Post
I think that already happened a long time ago; that or the neighborhoods were already poor and blighted, because it seems like so much of what stands in these neighborhoods today is abandoned or dilapidated or both. Where exactly are the poor going to move into - an abandoned house? Then take the sheer amount of urban prairie in these neighborhoods, great empty parcels where things were torn down. It takes a long decline for neighborhoods to reach that point. Have you seen Woods Run lately? I walked Woods Run Ave., and on the surface it appears that many of the homes might be occupied, but talk to some of the people who live there and you quickly learn how many homes are vacant and uninhabitable, and why.
Marshall-Shadeland was essentially a "born poor" neighborhood from what I have seen in the explorations, but as others have said, for the most part it's not too blighted given its checkered history. Some of the oldest streets near California Avenue are missing a lot of historic housing, but there's also streets with few (or in some cases no) vacant lots at all which seem well kept, if not my cup of tea in terms of housing style.

Perry South is another matter entirely. The Charles Street sub-neighborhood is a mess, and minus the one awesome row, virtually everything historic is gone and/or falling apart. The rest of the neighborhood is a bit more intact, but only in places because there has been less demolition of houses which would be well past saving even if the area gentrified. The range of housing up there always stuns me - everything from falling-apart Victorian mansions, to falling-apart shotgun shacks. Some of those streets (particularly those off the main drags) don't seem to have ever filled in back in the day though, so the existence of tons of gaps doesn't mean there were houses in each and every lot.

I am hopeful that if the Pittsburgh land bank works out, the cycle of abandonment and demolition will finally come to an end. If it works as intended, the Bank will have the money to acquire distressed properties at (low) market values and get them to sellers before deterioration is too bad to warrant extensive rehabilitation.
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Old 02-02-2014, 09:00 PM
 
1,010 posts, read 1,388,584 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PreservationPioneer View Post
Demolition doesn't create liveable housing. They are pushed out, because the housing is gone or uninhabitable, not because the neighborhoods have improved. Having fields of empty land is not part of the positive evolution of a neighborhood, although that may have been the city's goal.
You are correct. The other problem is nobody is coming in to build new housing. So how good is the economy? People are not moving here in droves or they would be building like crazy. Most of the new housing units built in the region are apartments in the city limits.

The north side used to have 136,000 people in the city limits. Now it is a slight tick over 40,000. It is like a house that burned to the ground and we are still waiting to rebuild.

Perry Hilltop peaked at 14,000 residents and Marshall Shadeland had 16,000 residents. Now both have 4,000 and 5,000 each.


What do you guys think pittsburgh's population estimate will be for 2013 when it comes out this year?
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