Political makeover of a rust belt city (Pittsburgh, Erie: hotel, unemployed)

[Evergrey]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Please explain to me what appeal Dukakis had to the working-class white voters in Southwestern Pennsylvania that he cleaned up so well here, while Obama did so poorly. Hell, why did he do better than John Kerry or Al Gore? Was it his salt of the earth nature? Was it his broadly populist rhetoric? His background as a die-hard union man?

It was his manly tank photo-op.

[steindle]

I think the mistake being made here, which has been alluded to by others, is conflating the fact that Pittsburgh was voting Democratic with it being less conservative. With some notable exceptions, Democrats in Western PA have often been very socially conservative -- if anything, Peduto's election indicates a move away from that.

[airwave09]

We really need to stop classifying people by the outdated 2 party system. In this country. Really, classification into any political party isn't accurate as many people have political views that cross the boundaries of what are considered today's political parties in multiple ways.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by steindle

I think the mistake being made here, which has been alluded to by others, is conflating the fact that Pittsburgh was voting Democratic with it being less conservative. With some notable exceptions, Democrats in Western PA have often been very socially conservative -- if anything, Peduto's election indicates a move away from that.

Social issues are at most half of the left/right axis - and I'd argue they account for far less than that. It doesn't matter if these people were socially conservative in the past, and are still socially conservative today if they used to be die-hard trade unionists who voted for New Deal liberals, and now vote for people like Keith Rothfus.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by airwave09

We really need to stop classifying people by the outdated 2 party system. In this country. Really, classification into any political party isn't accurate as many people have political views that cross the boundaries of what are considered today's political parties in multiple ways.

I'm sorry but this whole "don't classify me" thing is rubbish. Whatever their justifications, 80% of Americans vote for one party or the other in essentially every election. Most true "swing voters" tend to be less informed on the issues than partisans of either stripe, and vote for who they like the best as a person.

We have a clear ideological polarization in this country. Historically, this hasn't mattered, because there used to be many conservative Democrats and Liberal Republicans, but the parties have realigned to reflect ideology in a way they never did in the past.

[greg42]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Whatever their justifications, 80% of Americans vote for one party or the other in essentially every election.

So, these 80%, do you think they 100% agree with each of their sides and that's why they always vote that way? That would be the implication here.

Originally Posted by eschaton

We have a clear ideological polarization in this country.

No we don't. There are only two parties who can win on a large scale, and if there's anything they hate more than each other it is any chance of that changing, so they will always join forces to make sure that they are the only two.

This dichotomy is fabricated. The number of possible affiliations being two is arbitrary. The dichotomy exists because of the parties; the parties do not exist because of an inherent dichotomy.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by greg42

How the area votes for president is not the end all be all of its true makeup.

I'd say it's likely much more nuanced, but nobody wants to look at that, they just want to look at red/blue and nothing in between or outside of that dichotomy.

You have a point there. In fact, I got into a heated "discussion" on this board with one of this forum's gurus about Colorado "turning blue", supposedly. I said the same thing as the bold. All politics is local. Now there are a lot of people who know more about Colorado politics than me, but not some internet junkie from Pittsburgh who gets his info from Nate Silver.

[Craziaskowboi]

Why does it even matter which direction the political winds blow in western Pennsylvania outside of Allegheny County? The only counties west of the Allegheny Front that are currently gaining population are Allegheny, Butler, Erie and Washington. Butler and Washington Counties directly benefit from bordering Allegheny County, and Erie County has grown by less than 100 people since 2010.

[pghdude28]

Originally Posted by Gnutella

Allegheny County and Erie County has grown by less than 100 people since 2010.

At least there's some growth.

[Goinback2011]

The real test is whether or no Peduto will be less corrupt than most of the other mayors in Pittsburgh in my lifetime.

If he isn't, then its business as usual, with some rhetorical bones thrown to social liberals.