Developers build in East Liberty while Pittsburgh employment stagnates (Whitfield: buy, landlords)
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Gee, it seems to me that there are some people who only want to bring up negative things, and don't want discuss it, just repeat them over and over, and imply that certain negative things only happen in Pittsburgh.
<shrug>
I hope you're not referencing me. While I do tend to be the only one on here who has noticed rapidly rising rents in the city over the past few years I am all gushy and positive about Pittsburgh otherwise. I just don't think it has that "edge" in affordability any longer over the rest of "flyover country".
I like East Liberty, and in fact lived there because of the potential the place has, it's great location and flat bikeable streets (although not really bike FRIENDLY). I just don't like the direction the development is heading. If I didn't give a sh** about the neighborhood, I wouldn't comment on the current state of it or it's direction. Why do I see a trend in Pittsburgh forums that if you don't like something and actually want to have a discussion about it, you are labeled as some kind of "i hate everything about Pittsburgh or said neighborhood" person or a "this must only happen in Pittsburgh" person. No....good and bad can and SHOULD be discussed about a city. If I had some vested interest in NYC and they were redeveloping some once run down area with crap suburban structures I'd call it out. As far as the thread claiming EL is some murder haven, I totally disagree. It isn't the city's safest neighborhood but it isn't terrible.
Obviously you're missing my point... which is that I find it curious that you'd bump a 6-month old "CFP hates East Liberty" thread when he/she just started TWO of the same threads in recent days... so now we have three CFP threads all about the same thing... and I'm sure there's been many more in the 6 month interim.
Location: Pittsburgh (via Chicago, via Pittsburgh)
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Originally Posted by Evergrey
Obviously you're missing my point... which is that I find it curious that you'd bump a 6-month old "CFP hates East Liberty" thread when he/she just started TWO of the same threads in recent days... so now we have three CFP threads all about the same thing... and I'm sure there's been many more in the 6 month interim.
I didn't want to create a new East Liberty thread. The other one about East Liberty that I know of from CFP is about crime, which wasn't the topic I wanted to discuss, and is locked (and I disagreed with his/her premise on the topic). I wanted to discuss development, and this came closest to it, so I commented. Would you have rather had me create another East Liberty thread? Or would that have garnered a complaint as well?
Cutting through all the back and forth in this thread, I will agree that the more recent "big money" developments in East Liberty have left a lot to be desired in terms of pedestrian friendliness and overall integration into the neighborhood. In fact, the entire stretch of Penn from Target to the building that now houses Chatham and MSA is a drag. I'm not sure anything they could have done with Bakery Square could have connected it to the neighborhood any better, especially when the school was still across the street.
I do have high hopes for the transit hub. I went to the website and re-watched a few of the renderings today. It seems like there will be good pedestrian/cycling connections between Highland, Penn, Centre, Ellsworth, and Shady, really clearing up an area that, in my experience, has been really bad for cycling. Target is pretty annoying to access on bike from points west. I'm hoping that the retail adds to the feel of the area, as well.
Location: Pittsburgh (via Chicago, via Pittsburgh)
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Originally Posted by WhoIsStanwix?
Cutting through all the back and forth in this thread, I will agree that the more recent "big money" developments in East Liberty have left a lot to be desired in terms of pedestrian friendliness and overall integration into the neighborhood. In fact, the entire stretch of Penn from Target to the building that now houses Chatham and MSA is a drag. I'm not sure anything they could have done with Bakery Square could have connected it to the neighborhood any better, especially when the school was still across the street.
I do have high hopes for the transit hub. I went to the website and re-watched a few of the renderings today. It seems like there will be good pedestrian/cycling connections between Highland, Penn, Centre, Ellsworth, and Shady, really clearing up an area that, in my experience, has been really bad for cycling. Target is pretty annoying to access on bike from points west. I'm hoping that the retail adds to the feel of the area, as well.
Interesting. I've been there many times and have never experienced this, or have seen a stage area. Maybe it's just weekends or something. Regardless, it still supports my claim that CT Roasters and Google are the only two worthwhile things about the whole "square"
My wife loves Anthropologie and Free People. Most of the retail caters to women. The West Elm furniture store opens tomorrow. West Elm has a large online following in Pittsburgh so the brick and mortar store should do well.
The parking for Bakery Square is sufficient considering the location. The development is sandwiched between the Port Authority garage and Penn Ave. Penn was widened in preparation for development and is more pedestrian friendly now than ever before. The hotel, office and retail development needed parking and I do not see it as a problem. The new apartments are set back from Penn Avenue but the new office development will fill in the set back. The new office building currently under construction creates a perfect street wall and I assume the next phase will do the same. I am pleased with all of the development so far. It surely is better than what it replaced. The stretch of Penn where Bakery Square is today was a total dead zone. The same can be said about Whole Foods shopping center site.
I do agree that the loss of The Shadow Lounge had a negative impact on the Baum and Highland intersection. The new TRIM boutique is awesome though.
Location: Pittsburgh (via Chicago, via Pittsburgh)
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Originally Posted by wpipkins2
My wife loves Anthropologie and Free People. Most of the retail caters to women. The West Elm furniture store opens tomorrow. West Elm has a large online following in Pittsburgh so the brick and mortar store should do well.
The parking for Bakery Square is sufficient considering the location. The development is sandwiched between the Port Authority garage and Penn Ave. Penn was widened in preparation for development and is more pedestrian friendly now than ever before. The hotel, office and retail development needed parking and I do not see it as a problem. The new apartments are set back from Penn Avenue but the new office development will fill in the set back. The new office building currently under construction creates a perfect street wall and I assume the next phase will do the same. I am pleased with all of the development so far. It surely is better than what it replaced. The stretch of Penn where Bakery Square is today was a total dead zone. The same can be said about Whole Foods shopping center site.
I do agree that the loss of The Shadow Lounge had a negative impact on the Baum and Highland intersection. The new TRIM boutique is awesome though.
I agree that it is better what was there before (basically nothing), but that doesn't mean it was planned well. Jimmy Johns? Panera? And I don't see how one could see the parking situation at bakery square as favorable. I have high hopes for the transit hub but as far as most other projects thus far I'm under enthused. It's great seeing the neighborhood turn in the right direction though
I like Bakery Square. I actually worry that the parking garage may have been underbuilt, though. Recently on a Friday morning before work I stopped there to buy a few gifts for my baby niece at Learning Express Toys. I had to park all the way up on the roof, as all of the other parking spaces were taken. If the roof was also filled I would have taken my business elsewhere, as I'm not sure where else you can park for Bakery Square, as you can't park along Penn Avenue or East Liberty Boulevard.
Developers don't seem to realize this is still a city where almost everyone (except for doo dah) owns a motorized vehicle. We don't have a good subway or light rail system because that would entail raising taxes (yinzers would hate that), and the buses are largely an unpleasant experience, especially at rush-hour. Cabs are unreliable, and it's only very recently that ride-sharing services like Uber and Lyft have crept into town. So, despite being very densely-populated, many people here still drive.
My neighborhood (and apparently also eschaton's from prior posts of his) indicates many people in the city may take the bus to work Downtown or to Oakland since the streets in these residential areas are clogged with vehicles all day long, but for day-to-day errands, such as buying some toys in Bakery Square or hitting up the gym, most people DO hop into their cars.
We don't have a good subway or light rail system because that would entail raising taxes (yinzers would hate that), and the buses are largely an unpleasant experience, especially at rush-hour.
Why is that some joke? If you lump a group together, throw a label on them and put them down, it is the same thing. I see NO difference at all.
This thread proved to be more than incorrect and actually when I see the title, it if pretty funny. Pittsburgh is alive and well and East Liberty will do fine. It won't be nearly as nice as it was many years ago, but it will be much better than a couple of decades ago. Most of you folks on here don't know what it was actually like. It was a very tough place and the bars were crazy with plenty of trouble. I don't think Pittsburgh has a bar that is as wild as the ones on Penn back in the day. Thankfully, they are gone.
Name of the game.
Regarding walkability in East Liberty - it is getting better. Same with biking - East Liberty Blvd has bike lanes.
As Wpikipns said - Penn is much better now around Bakery Square than it was in the past.
The surface parking in front of the gym could always be replaced with more retail shops. Or even a few little restaurant shacks like Coffee Tree has. Retail is tough, as we've all seen. People buy more online than ever before.
Social is hated on here as a lame bar. It isn't trying to be more much than beer and sandwiches / pizzas / salads. It works for families to get dinner or people popping in after work. I go there sometimes and like sitting outside, having a decent pizza and a drink in a place that kids can be loud or make a mess inside of. Bakery Square is technically in Larimer, but borders Pt Breeze, Shadyside and East Liberty.
Last I read, there are well over 2,000 people working at bakery square. Most of that is office space. CMU, UPMC, Google, are the big 3 there.
Walk from Bakery Square westward and you have to pass the village of Shadyside gates and the strip mall that houses Staples. That's not a modern issue. If it was built today, that giant parking lot wouldn't be the front 80% of the complex.
Then Trader Joes and Club One. Club 1 and the house next to it were a part of the older East Liberty - not current developments.
Across the street is the Shakespheare Giant Eagle. Again, lots of surface lot parking in front. A 50s or 60's problem. Not current.
Target takes up too much space, but it is better than an H&R block below a tower of low income apartments. It at least has setbacks that conform to the next block. Across the the transit center that we're all curious about. I know there are a lot of different types of retail - small to large anchors. Old Navy is supposedly one of the Anchors. I'm not a fan, but teenagers tend to shop there.
The main block between Centre (penn circle) and Highland is interesting. Walnut and Dolan have agreements on a lot of those properties and hopefully they keep it interesting and not a bunch of places like fudruckers or whatever. They'll at least keep the street scape urban and somewhat interesting.
Overall I like a lot of what's going on and of course I'm going to dislike some of the things happening but there's so much that I can't love it all. I live in the neighborhood and spend a lot of time here.
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