Pittsburgh drivers - pedestrians (Dormont, Bellevue: neighborhood, suburbs, title)

[gg]

Originally Posted by UKyank

Yea, I know, yet another Pittsburgh driver’s thread. I’ll also preface this by saying most bad behavior complained about drivers here isn’t unique to the area, but (at least from my observations living elsewhere) the pedestrian/driver poor interaction is unique enough in an urban core for me to theorize why? (plus I could literally get run over every day I walk to work if I wanted to by doing nothing illegal on my part which makes me think of these things).

It is all about priorities of the mayor's office/police. I think a good example of this crosswalk/pedestrian/car mess is in Blawnox. They have the crosswalks with yellow pedestrian signs that say "Yield to Pedestrians" "State Law". I don't get there often, but have been there are rush hour and attempted to cross in a crosswalk there. It wasn't the greatest situation, but someone lets you go at some point. I am sure if a police car was sitting there they would stop. Blawnox will pull people over. Most people driving cars are angry and agitated just looking at their faces. I have that advantage being someone who is on a bike a lot. You rarely see anyone smile driving a vehicle. Most are rushing and really getting nowhere, which I find interesting. They speed and slam on their brakes at the next red-light or stop sign and they are behind the car where they started, so even if they slowed down or let someone walk across the street, they wouldn't lose their valuable one second of time. It is just selfish behavior and I don't think anyone can do anything about it. It is our culture to be very selfish. There are worse places to be as a pedestrian for sure, but there are also much better places. The only way to change this is giving an attitude adjustment to the drivers. How? Obviously police action and a TON of it. I think the best way to handle it would be not to give out tickets right away. One month of polite warnings to create a feeling of guilt because the drivers are so selfish. After the warnings, then lower the boom hard. Making it a priority is the only way and it would take a while, but it can be done. The police are disjointed with civilians for the most part, so this would have to be a policy that would be forced on them. Can it be?

I want to give an example of what it would be like to force the PPD to enforce this. Years ago I was driving home from the South Side and I came upon a DUI checkpoint. I approached it and rolled my window down and the officer asked if I would sign a petition, so the PPD wouldn't have to have DUI checkpoints. Interesting. I think the police would resist something new and how can you make an entire force do something different? Can you?

I think Peduto is an interesting guy and he has the FBI here for some things. An outside group that certainly wouldn't be overly welcome by some I am sure. Maybe Peduto will make some changes via force, but it will be tough I am sure. What kind of publicity would Peduto get if he goes against a giant force like the PPD? Will he get punished for suggesting how they do their job? Does the PPD have lots of power? I don't have the answers, but don't think anything would be easy.

[BarqCider]

for me personally, its gotten to the point where people literally walk into an intersection even if a car is about to hit them. i sit there and debat to myself "i wonder who thinks has more of a right of way? the walker with the stop sign, or the car turning with a green? hell they probably both think its their right"

i literally stop until a) they cross or b) look at me and either stop or cross but wave at me.

[LIRefugee]

When there is an uncontrolled crosswalk, I walk across it, making sure no one mows me down. Only once has a car disregarded by presence, honked, and drove past. Point being, I assert myself while maintaining situational awareness, and if someone gets angry, I don't care. If the crosswalk has controls, I respect the controls, and I only jaywalk when there is no traffic. On the whole, I don't get hung up on it. There are aggressive drivers everywhere, I don't think Pittsburgh is special in that regard, and I have been to more continents, countries, and states than ATC, as if that matters at all.

Boston has aggressive pedestrians. Copenhagen has aggressive bicyclists. Melbourne has aggressive swans. Such is life.

[UKyank]

Originally Posted by Aqua Teen Carl

What's really dangerous for pedestrians is the used of the ol' Pittsburgh Left. Most of us are familiar with what that is: a driver cutting off oncoming traffic at intersection by making a sudden left turn. The problem is that pedestrians who are using the correct walk signals would be walking into the street while the offender is flying into where they are crossing.

Has anyone else been "cut off" by a car like this while walking?

I've only encountered this problem a few times; the much more occurring problem are the people continuing to make turns after the light has turned red or their green arrow goes away as they are going fast to try to beat the oncoming traffic then have to slam their brakes to not hit the pedestrian & then get really angry.

[gortonator]

Originally Posted by LIRefugee

When there is an uncontrolled crosswalk, I walk across it, making sure no one mows me down. Only once has a car disregarded by presence, honked, and drove past. Point being, I assert myself while maintaining situational awareness, and if someone gets angry, I don't care. If the crosswalk has controls, I respect the controls, and I only jaywalk when there is no traffic. On the whole, I don't get hung up on it. There are aggressive drivers everywhere, I don't think Pittsburgh is special in that regard, and I have been to more continents, countries, and states than ATC, as if that matters at all.

Boston has aggressive pedestrians. Copenhagen has aggressive bicyclists. Melbourne has aggressive swans. Such is life.

Copenhagen cyclists are possibly the most agressive, dangerous road hazard I have ever encountered as a pedestrian. And I found Boston drivers pretty darn aggressive too.

[DaisyDaisy]

Originally Posted by UKyank

...Anyways, I’ve come to the conclusion that at least a majority of the drivers really don’t know the laws. I peg this either to lack of any enforcement, or some sort of pavlov’s dog type indoctrination.

I conclude this because of the numerous times someone nearly hits me when they clearly do not have the right-of-way they look (or act) genuinely angry & I believe that they truly believe that the legal pedestrian action is in the wrong.

I agree with you. There is a marked difference in this area with regard to pedestrian right-of-way as opposed to my experience in CA, NJ and a few other states where they appear to take this more seriously.

Here, whether crosswalk or store parking lot, most drivers don't stop for pedestrians - I'd estimate 9 out of 10 times. Same scenario in CA (except for SF proper- they will mow you down while going through a red light) or NJ and, in my experience, 9 out of 10 will stop.

I've been in the middle of a crosswalk many times, even pushing the button so the flashing lights appear, and drivers will just keep going and give the stink eye, yell, beep, etc. I know it would be safer to stop but I do usually keep going in the (false) hopes that I am educating someone.

[SteelCityRising]

As a frequent driver can I ask what the FLASHING red hand means at intersections? It was my understanding that:

Little White Guy: Enter Crosswalk

Flashing Red Hand: Finish Crossing if already in Crosswalk AND Do NOT Enter Crosswalk

Solid Red Hand: Light is about to change any second. Don't do it!


If I'm turning from Oakland Avenue onto Forbes Avenue, and if these college kids keep marching into my path while their light has been blinking with the red hand for a few seconds, I'll turn and force them to walk around me or yield to me. Why should only one vehicle (if that) be able to turn during a full light cycle? Downtown is even worse with the...errrrmm..."different" people who just waltz on into traffic without looking and without being at legal crosswalks.

This issue is a two-way street, folks.

With that being said I'm terrified sometimes to stop and wave pedestrians across crosswalks. Almost every time I've stopped on Wilkins Avenue at Murray Avenue to wave someone across Wilkins at the crosswalk I've been nearly rear-ended and/or honked at by motorist(s) behind me. I can say the same for Bates & Semple; Braddock & Henrietta; Beechwood & Loretta; etc. The other day I stopped to wave a pedestrian across on Liberty Avenue at the WELL-MARKED crosswalk at South Mathilda, and the pedestrian was almost taken out when a stupid yinzer in a pick-up truck sped around me into the opposing lane, not realizing I was stopping to let a pedestrian cross in the crosswalk.

As a driver sometimes I ask myself if it's worth the risk of being involved in yet another road-rage incident with drivers behind me for the sake of doing what's right for pedestrians.

[SteelCityRising]

Originally Posted by LIRefugee

I only jaywalk when there is no traffic.

I knew there was a reason why I loved you! Can you teach this concept to the jaywalkers of Squirrel Hill who just expect me to stop mid-block?

[doo dah]

What does the yellow light mean on the traffic signal? Speed up, keep going as the light turns red, all cars in back of the first one *deserve* to go through the red light?
Drivers: so self-entitled.

[Aqua Teen Carl]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

This issue is a two-way street, folks.

Both OP and myself were not talking about drivers reactions to jaywalking, but rather pedestrians obeying the law and still nearly getting mowed down/yelled at. If you are handing the responsibility of piloting a 2 ton machine at high speeds you have to be aware of all pedestrian situations, simple as that.