South Fayette charges student with wiretapping when he recorded bullies with iPad (Penn: renting, transfer)

[okaydorothy]

My kids go to this school. I didn't hear about it until Sat at a function. Then someone said it to me at work today. My 9th grader swears he knows nothing, however my 8th grader did hear on the grapevine.

While no school is perfect, I do think that the principal was wrong in telling the child to delete it. I also think that the bullying should not have gone on this long. Last year my son had an issue and I got a phone call before 11 on the day in question. It wasn't a huge big deal and the child in question was moved to a different school after a few incidents (he was the bully).

From what I understand also, this child was in a special ed class. My son does have issues and in middle school was in a special ed class. He hated it. He felt that there were a lot of trouble makers there and he didn't belong there. He had mild reading issues but no behavior issues. I really do not know any more, but wish the bullies would get punished for a change. They always seem to get the better end of the deal.

[sparrowmint]

Originally Posted by okaydorothy

My kids go to this school. I didn't hear about it until Sat at a function. Then someone said it to me at work today. My 9th grader swears he knows nothing, however my 8th grader did hear on the grapevine.

While no school is perfect, I do think that the principal was wrong in telling the child to delete it. I also think that the bullying should not have gone on this long. Last year my son had an issue and I got a phone call before 11 on the day in question. It wasn't a huge big deal and the child in question was moved to a different school after a few incidents (he was the bully).

From what I understand also, this child was in a special ed class. My son does have issues and in middle school was in a special ed class. He hated it. He felt that there were a lot of trouble makers there and he didn't belong there. He had mild reading issues but no behavior issues. I really do not know any more, but wish the bullies would get punished for a change. They always seem to get the better end of the deal.

What's with the special ed classes? If you're in there, are you in there full day? Full inclusion (with in-class support and pull out for specific services) is the currently accepted method of providing special ed services now (with very few exceptions), so the idea of segregated classes is strange to me (if that's the case).

[villageidiot1]

Originally Posted by sparrowmint

What's with the special ed classes? If you're in there, are you in there full day? Full inclusion (with in-class support and pull out for specific services) is the currently accepted method of providing special ed services now (with very few exceptions), so the idea of segregated classes is strange to me (if that's the case).

Special ed. classes by law are in the least restrictive environment. In PA, this means students will not be removed from regular education classrooms merely because of the severity of their disabilities. In some cases, there will be a class provided in a specialized setting. These are typically small classrooms with less than eight students.

[sparrowmint]

Originally Posted by villageidiot1

Special ed. classes by law are in the least restrictive environment. In PA, this means students will not be removed from regular education classrooms merely because of the severity of their disabilities. In some cases, there will be a class provided in a specialized setting. These are typically small classrooms with less than eight students.

Yep, I'm aware, which is why I was asking what it looks like South Fayette.

[Hopes]

I don't like inclusion because the districts aren't doing it appropriately. The inclusion classes aren't equal to the regular ed classes at all. They are placing children with behavior problems in the inclusion classes. The non-inclusion classes don't have the extreme behavior issues. School districts are using inclusion to save money at the expense of all students.

I prefer separate special ed classes instead of inclusion, but placement in an appropriate special ed setting is vital. There are classes for severely disabled children and children with behavior problems, and there are classes for the specific learning disability, such as the language arts where the students are placed only during English or math instruction, but are in the regular ed classes the rest of the day. Sometimes a student gets put in the wrong placement (with severely disabled or behavior problem students) because the student/teacher ratio would mean hiring a new teacher because the appropriate special education class is full. That's not the student's problem and the school district is violating the law when that happens.

These separate classes are better because nobody knows they are leaving the class for special instruction since many students leave classrooms for speech or occupation therapy. That's for elementary school. Middle school isn't even an issue since there are classes and nobody would know if a student when to a special ed classroom for a specific period of the day.

My biggest problem with schools is mixing children with behavioral problems with students with academic issues---including students who aren't in special ed. For example, a school can punish students for lack of academic performance by not allowing them to attend assemblies or parties if they don't turn in X homework assignments or are failing a class. Those students have to spend the day in a room with students who lost privileges for behavior problems. There should be two separate rooms for students with academic issues and behavior issues.

I guess I'm saying that the behavior problem students should be separated from the rest of the students regardless of special education or regular ed. All students should be protected from the behavior problem students. I know there are alternative schools where behavior problem students are sent, but it seems school districts don't send them there soon enough and don't send enough of them there. The other problem is these special schools don't work to rehabilitate the behavior problem students.

[DaisyDaisy]

Originally Posted by HeavenWood

IIRC, NJ is a "one party recording state" (only one party needs to be aware that the recording is taking place), while PA is a two party state (both parties must consent).

I can understand the rationale behind two party recording systems in general, but yeesh, you'd think that prosecutorial discretion would tilt toward common sense on this one.


NJ laws are more reasonable than ours in quite a few respects. The only eminently unreasonable NJ law I can think of is that you're not allowed to pump your own gas.

I view that as a perk! It's cheaper too! I usually try to get over the Ben Franklin before refueling.

On topic, how would either the NJ or S Fayette cases have ended if they hadn't recorded?

[okaydorothy]

In the past, I have noticed that the problem children don't last long at South Fayette. From what I hear from my kids in the past is that they last about 2-3 months, and then they go to Westly(sp) or something like that. They then have to earn their way back to South Fayette be it by grades or behaviour.
I do not agree with inclusion classes either. My son had resource and would have a special ed teacher for math and english.The special ed assistants were fantastic and were always available for phone calls or emails. But going into 9th grade, my son didn't want to be in resource anymore as he felt it was for more the kids who had behavior issues (he didn't). He has struggled this year, but its been a great year overall. He has said that the math teacher cannot control the class ; maybe its the same teacher (different pupils) ; I don't know. We had more issues in a catholic school with bullies than we did in South Fayette. I really think its a great school ; maybe the principal needs to take a look at the procedures, but overall it is a very good school.

[Hopes]

The assistant principal should be fired. Every parent should insist upon it.

[Hopes]

In the comments section of this article, someone says the bully is a cop's kid.

Legal experts question prosecuting South Fayette boy for recording bullies

Also someone posted the school district has a school board meeting on April 22nd and encourages everyone to go.

[villageidiot1]

Originally Posted by sparrowmint

Yep, I'm aware, which is why I was asking what it looks like South Fayette.

South Fayette should look like every other school district since special education is governed by federal and state laws.

Originally Posted by Hopes

I don't like inclusion because the districts aren't doing it appropriately. The inclusion classes aren't equal to the regular ed classes at all. They are placing children with behavior problems in the inclusion classes. The non-inclusion classes don't have the extreme behavior issues. School districts are using inclusion to save money at the expense of all students.

I prefer separate special ed classes instead of inclusion, but placement in an appropriate special ed setting is vital. There are classes for severely disabled children and children with behavior problems, and there are classes for the specific learning disability, such as the language arts where the students are placed only during English or math instruction, but are in the regular ed classes the rest of the day. Sometimes a student gets put in the wrong placement (with severely disabled or behavior problem students) because the student/teacher ratio would mean hiring a new teacher because the appropriate special education class is full. That's not the student's problem and the school district is violating the law when that happens.

These separate classes are better because nobody knows they are leaving the class for special instruction since many students leave classrooms for speech or occupation therapy. That's for elementary school. Middle school isn't even an issue since there are classes and nobody would know if a student when to a special ed classroom for a specific period of the day.

My biggest problem with schools is mixing children with behavioral problems with students with academic issues---including students who aren't in special ed. For example, a school can punish students for lack of academic performance by not allowing them to attend assemblies or parties if they don't turn in X homework assignments or are failing a class. Those students have to spend the day in a room with students who lost privileges for behavior problems. There should be two separate rooms for students with academic issues and behavior issues.

I guess I'm saying that the behavior problem students should be separated from the rest of the students regardless of special education or regular ed. All students should be protected from the behavior problem students. I know there are alternative schools where behavior problem students are sent, but it seems school districts don't send them there soon enough and don't send enough of them there. The other problem is these special schools don't work to rehabilitate the behavior problem students.

The school districts don't have much choice in these matters since under the least restrictive environment principle as defined by the Federal Individuals with Disabilities Education Act, students who have an identified disability have the opportunity to be educated with non-disabled peers to the greatest extent appropriate.