Pittsburgh vs. Denver (California, Austin: transplants, sales, 2013)

[AlphaBeta01]

I'm a single, young professional (accountant) from San Diego, and my employer has given me the choice to transfer to Denver or Pittsburgh in April 2008. I have read several discussion threads in the Denver and Pittsburgh fourms. Both cities have their pros and cons. I am planning to visit Denver and Pittsburgh soon to see which city would be best for me. However, I am hoping that a few folks would be able to provide a comparison between Denver and Pittsburgh in terms of weather, people, culture, outdoor oppournity, social life, night life, dating scene, etc. Anything to compare these two cities would be helpful before I visit.

Regards...

[RockLobster]

I love the burgh and my family has been in this neck of the woods for 200 years. But I would have to say for me being a young professional and into the outdoor's yet loving city life, Denver would be my pick. I love how LODO- Lower Denver has very cool condo's, apartments, nightlife and good public transit ( light rail, bus ) and is walking distance to all entertainment venues. And the Rockies make up your back yard. I also enjoy the Denver-Front range climate over Pittsburgh's climate. There are so many specific pro's and con's for each city that I'm not going to mention them. Both places are good communities ! For me if I were young and seeking a ton of things to do with a good population of young and middle aged professionals around I'd pick Denver. Also when I was in my 20's I moved away from where I was from ( Pittsburgh ) so now I'm an old crusty 40 and moved back to 'nest' in my hometown of Pittsburgh. I think I made the right choice. Good luck to you!

[gallacus]

I am 24 years old, I grew up near Pittsburgh, moved to Denver for 5 years for school, and moved back 2 years ago to live in the city of Pittsburgh. I love Pittsburgh and prefer to live here. I think you have two very good options, as both cities are great. I liked living in Denver when I was there, the mountains are beautiful and the weather was nice, but something just didn't feel quite right about it. There are definitely more young people in Denver, and among young people, Denver is much more popular as Pittsburgh's image couldn't compare to Denver's. With that said, that doesn't mean that living in Pittsburgh doesn't compare to Denver. Some of the major differences I noticed:

Pittsburgh:
-MUCH cheaper to live here
-Weather is predictable -- hot/humid in the summer, grey and cold in the winter
-Cloudy
-Beautiful fall foliage
-Trees EVERYWHERE
-Rolling hills everywhere
-Much more green in the summer
-More historic architecture
-More history in general
-Blue collar presence
-Water is in abundance
-Outdoor activities are abundant and under-utilized. You can get away from people in the woods. COMPLETELY away from people.
-Can be difficult to navigate at first because all roads are working their way around rivers, hills, etc.
-Many urban adventure activities (the #1 city for urban adventures)
-Kayaking downtown
-Most people will ask you why in the world you are moving to Pittsburgh, but if you move here you will see that image is unfounded.
-Steelers, Pirates, Penguins and Pitt Basketball
-Kennywood is an awesome amusement park and most people here love it

Denver:
-MUCH more expensive
-Weather extremely unpredictable -- gets hot in the summer, cold in the winter, but can be warm in the winter and cold in the summer. You pretty much always have to be prepared for the weather taking a sudden turn
-More blue skies, less clouds
-Much newer buildings
-Less historic architecture
-Topography is COMPLETELY flat in the city and suburbs
-Brown all year round (except when the initial rains come in spring)
-More young professionals
-Much better image nationally
-Outdoor activities are abundant, but heavily utilized. You wont be alone when on most trails within an hour or so from Denver
-Water is scarce
-Urban sprawl like crazy -- laid out like LA
-Traffic is worse
-Very easy to navigate as almost all roads are in a grid
-Broncos (boo!), Rockies, Nuggets, and Avalanche
-Elitch Gardens is an OK amusement park that most people in Denver dislike

That seems to sum up my short list of comparisons, but the only true way you can decide which one you like better is to visit them both.

[globalburgh]

Originally Posted by AlphaBeta01

However, I am hoping that a few folks would be able to provide a comparison between Denver and Pittsburgh in terms of weather, people, culture, outdoor oppournity, social life, night life, dating scene, etc.

My disclaimer is that I'm a big Pittsburgh booster, but I currently live in the Denver area and love it here.

Weather: Advantage Denver (think San Diego sun but with four seasons). The Pittsburgh clouds would make for a tough adjustment for someone from San Diego.

People: Advantage Pittsburgh. Not that Denver people are jerks, but I find Pittsburghers to be exceptionally nice in a neighborly sort of way. The main difference is that there isn't any such thing as "Denver people" since there are so many transplants and non-natives, but you might find that to be a positive.

Culture: Advantage Pittsburgh. Denver is narrowing the gap on this count, but the cultural amenities in Pittsburgh are world class thanks to the old money.

Outdoor Opportunity: Advantage Denver. Pittsburgh is an unknown in terms of outdoor opportunity and might surprise enthusiasts with the options available, but the Denver area is a global Mecca for outdoor activity. Plus, the weather is almost always right for going outdoors on the weekends here in Colorado.

Night Life: Advantage Denver. Downtown Denver is hopping these days. Not to disparage Pittsburgh, but this isn't even close.

Social Life: Push. Tough one to answer. Like the People category, depends on what you are looking for in terms of social life. I'd bet you'd have a better chance finding whatever floats your boat in Denver than in Pittsburgh, but I preferred my social life in Pittsburgh to the one I have in Denver.

Dating Scene: Advantage Denver. If you live in the city, and I recommend that you do, Denver has a very good dating scene. I'd rather not comment on the dating scene in Pittsburgh for fear of inciting a flame war.

Summary: If you enjoy living in San Diego, you will love Denver. The only thing you'll miss is the ocean, but that's true for Pittsburgh as well. If you are the adventurous type who is looking for something quite different and unique, I'd recommend Pittsburgh.

I doubt you would regret moving to Denver, I'm not so sure about Pittsburgh. I love Pittsburgh's soul and I think it is one of the most beautiful cities in the world, but it is the kind of place that inspires both passionate appreciation and deep hatred. Denver is the kind of place where there is a lot going on and a lot to do, but you could just as easily be in San Diego or Austin or a number of other "cool" cities with a favorable climate.

[Katarina Witt]

I agree pretty stronly with globalburgh, especially this sentence:

I doubt you would regret moving to Denver, I'm not so sure about Pittsburgh.

I grew up in Pittsburgh and moved to the Denver area 27 yrs ago. I would say both places have their pros and cons, pretty much what everyone else has said. There are two other issues that I would say you need to factor in:

You will be much closer to your family in Denver. That may not seem important, but at some point in time you will find it necessary to get back home ASAP, and that will be easier to do from Denver.

There are lots of transplants in Denver. You will find former Californians everywhere. There are not a lot of transplants in Pittsburgh, particularly from the west. (Anyone who disagrees with this should check the stats on the City-Data home pages.) Most people in Pittsburgh were born in the area, as were their parents and grandparents. They have loads of family there. The idea of inviting a newcomer home for a holiday, for example, will just not occur to a lot of Pittsburghers.

One last note: as far as cost of living goes, rents seem about the same as here, from what I read on CD. Buying a house is more expensive in metro Denver, but not as much as you might think, especially for a place you really want to live in. Yes, it's possible to buy a house in a depressed area for $50K, but you probably wouldn't want to live there, either in that area or in that house. All other costs of living are similar, and not enough to tip the scales, IMO.

[guylocke]

One thing that I feel is important to some and a bit controversial. It could be a very good thing for you, could be a very bad thing, or could be completely neutral.

Denver has much more diversity as Pittsburgh has very little Spanish immigration and is still a very "white, European-descent city." Our largest in-migration is from Asia.

Pittsburgh has a ton of ethnicity across all walks of European culture, but you will find a more diverse mix in Denver (outside of the many European countries).

That being said, I believe European-descent Americans are actually now a minority in Denver. I'm just pointing out the facts. That would be very troubling to some and others would think it is wonderful or completely a non-issue/neutral. Of course, coming from San Diego, it's the same situation.

Just pointing it out. I hear good things about Denver and of course I love and support Pittsburgh. Good luck.

Also, if you look up cost-of-living, I actually don't think it's negligible as Pittnurse says. Denver is unquestionably more expensive (at least, according to salary calculation sites). If you are being offered a good job in Pittsburgh, I would consider it. Pittsburgh is a real gem in most regards but the job market in Denver is better. A lot of people talk on this board how the last big piece of the puzzle is making sure you have a job lined up in Pittsburgh. If you do, I think you're golden. And of course, if you do in Denver, I'm sure you're golden, too! Just makes sure you do your research.

I do a lot of the same research because I am relocating next year too, just to be adventurous and my field can take me anywhere. If average is 100 points, Pittsburgh is usually roughly 15 points below the national average in terms of expenses while Denver is always higher than the national average. That's actually fairly considerable. Denver also has a much faster rate of living escalation than Pittsburgh. In 10 years, Pittsburgh will still have a low cost-of-living but Denver's cost-of-living could increase by a much larger margin.

It's actually sort of funny, because I have several close friends who plan on moving to Denver because they love it, and I meet other people on quite a regular basis FROM Denver who absolutely love Pittsburgh. The cities must be on equal footing in many regards, because I have never met someone who likes one but really dislikes the other.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by 2bindenver

Existing-home prices, sales fall in Nov., but so does inventory, an article from The Denver Post reports that according to a report based on data from Metrolist, prices and sales of existing home in metro Denver continued to decline in November. The number of homes sold in November dropped 3.2% compared with last year and was down 13.7% compared with October. The median price of a single-family home was $229,500, a drop of 4.3% compared with last year. The median condo price dropped nearly 11% to $139,000. Compared with October, the number of homes on the market experienced a decline of 6.2% with 27,127 homes listed and a 1.5% decline compared with the same time last year.
The Denver Post - Existing-home prices, sales fall in Nov., but so does inventory

This does not seem to me much higher than Pittsburgh's median. You will not find houses for $50K there like you can in some parts of Pgh, but you can find something very reasonable.

Yes, Denver city is a "majority-minority" city now. You won't see this data on CD anywhere, b/c it was just reported out within the last few months. That means Denver city is 50.1% minority, which includes hispanics of any race, African-Americans, Asians and others. The suburbs have varying degrees of diversity, moreso than Pittsburgh.

Both cities have similar rates of college educated individuals living there. Both cities love their sports teams (maybe a little more in Pgh). Both enjoy access to outdoor activities.

[guylocke]

Both cities have similar rates of college educated individuals living there. Both cities love their sports teams (maybe a little more in Pgh). Both enjoy access to outdoor activities.

I definitely believe that!! Denver is a very much "NOW IN YOUR FACE" outdoor city, which is great. Pittsburgh is sort one of those "hidden gems, very surprising" outdoor cities. I don't think the local population in Pittsburgh is all that into outdoors but Pittsburgh is becoming a very large hot-spot for outsiders to come and explore.

National Geographic ranked us the number 1 Urban Adventure City in America this past year and there are a lot of new things out there showing we are quickly climbing the ranks for outdoor enthusiasts.

Denver's outdoor enthusiasm is very established!! This really wasn't a comparison, just pointing out the reality. :P

[gallacus]

as far as cost of living goes, rents seem about the same as here

I'm not quite sure what Pittnurse is getting at, are you comparing Pittsburgh to Longmont or Denver? I lived in Denver and rent/home prices drove me out. I simply couldn't afford to live in the city. In Pittsburgh, I've got one of the nicer houses in the Southside with an amazing view of the city. I know what you are saying, that Pittsburgh has an abundance of these super cheap homes in ghetto areas, but living in the southside is still FAR cheaper than trying to live in a comparable unit in LODO or the Highlands.

[guylocke]

Here are two tidbits which may be completely irrelevant. I only post them because I recently found and post this stuff for other's on the Pittsburgh forum. I can't speak in terms of their definite truth because I've never been to Denver! You may still like to read up on it, though.

The Texas Transportation Institute does comprehensive studies on traffic in the USA using annual hours of delay per traveler. According to them, Pittsburgh has VERY low traffic compared to most major US cities. However, again, according to the, Denver has some major traffic problems. In fact, Denver has worse delay than San Diego.

To put it in perspective, the worst city for annual delay in the country is Los Angeles with a score of 72. Denver has a score of 50, San Diego has a score of 37, Pittsburgh has a score of 16. Like I said, it's all according to them, but I believe they are the largest tracking body of it's kind regarding traffic.

Recently, Business Journal performed a very large review on America's most fun cities using a formula based on shopping, food/drink, gambling, culture, and sports. To many people's surprise, even Business Journal's, Pittsburgh came in 8th place. That's very impressive.

Denver did well, too! It came in 15th place. What saved Denver was gambling. According to Business Journal, Denver has the fourth most gambling opportunity in the country (of course, Los Vegas being first).

Pittsburgh and Denver were just about completely equal in terms of food/drink, culture, and high-impact sports. Pittsburgh ranked MUCH higher in shopping (where Denver did very poor) and low-impact sports (where Denver also did very poor). Of course, like I said, Denver did much better in gambling. Denver also did somewhat better in popular entertainment, but Pittsburgh didn't rank poorly, either.

Just food for thought, it's just one ranking from Business Journal. Add it to your research. It's not necessarily 100% true and accurate, obviously.