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Your logic fails you here, and you obviously haven't ridden the T more than a handful of times. At rush hour, there are people at every stop. There are more people at the high level platforms you speak of, most of which have dedicated parking, but that parking also fills up by about 8 am at every single one of those lots. So by your logic once those lots are filled no one rides the train but that's obviously not the case. Mount Lebanon, Dormont, and Potomac have small lots that fill very quickly, most of the people getting on are from the NEIGHBORHOOD that the train passes through. Those big stops were designed that way because (at least on Red Line) they are the ones nearest the center of town where the most people will use them. Parking is just an added bonus.
Also, don't forget that old stops like Kelton are no longer in use, forcing those who would have used that stop to instead walk to Dormont Junction or Potomac. This is good, because it's easier to move more people on/off at the high level stops, but if you think the other stops are unused maybe you should hang out at Poplar on a weekday morning and watch how that tiny platform fills and refills despite a train coming past every 12 minutes. Or Beechview where there is NO parking lot yet that doesn't seem to keep people from the neighborhood riding it.
I rode the red line for years, from SHV for a while, from Dormont for a while, and from Lebo for a while, and it was rare to ever pass a stop without letting someone on or off, especially once they consolidated some of the little used stops a few years ago.
The Blue Line is a little different because it doesn't pass directly through neighborhoods. If you built a line in the HOV lanes heading north or something, you'd have the same situation where virtually no one uses it unless you build those big lots somewhere. It would be packed at rush hour and empty every other time. The Red Line as it stands has solid ridership throughout the day and even on weekends. I lived across the street from the line for over a year and could look out the window as the train was coming and easily gauge how full it was. This trumps your two anecdotal stories about the time you rode it. So much misinformation in these threads about the T, mostly by people who probably have never even ridden it.
I ride the Blue Line everyday and have done so for several years. I ride the Red Line occasionally. Always during rush hour.
Have you ever even seen the Castle Shannon park and ride lot? There are hundreds of cars parked there. You generally can't find a spot after 7:30AM. The number of people who get on after that stop is miniscule in comparison.
Most riders in Mt. Lebanon park in the Castle Shannon lot.
The Blue Line doesn't pass through neighborhoods? Ok...maybe you don't consider Carrick, Bon Aire and the area around Boggs to be neighborhoods.
I never said to have no park and ride lots. I just don't think it should be exclusively or primarily park and ride stops.
Using the NSC isn't a good example. If you build a T stop in a non-residential zone that is cut off from residential zones by a river, an elevated highway, a dead mall, and a sea of parking lots, of course it is going to mostly be used by park and riders.
It's a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you build a park and ride based system in the auto-centric suburbs, most riders will drive to the stop. If you build a walkable system in densely populated neighborhoods, most riders will walk to the stop. I just think that walkable stops provide more benefits since they allow for households to have fewer cars or even no cars, are more likely to be used outside of rush hour, and are more likely to attract riders.
So, are you saying bring back the trolleys on the surface streets, or do you propose a subway system throughtout? Those are really the only alternatives in 'densly populated neighborhoods' aka the East End.
I ride the Blue Line everyday and have done so for several years. I ride the Red Line occasionally. Always during rush hour.
Have you ever even seen the Castle Shannon park and ride lot? There are hundreds of cars parked there. You generally can't find a spot after 7:30AM. The number of people who get on after that stop is miniscule in comparison.
Most riders in Mt. Lebanon park in the Castle Shannon lot.
The Blue Line doesn't pass through neighborhoods? Ok...maybe you don't consider Carrick, Bon Aire and the area around Boggs to be neighborhoods.
I doubt you have EVER ridden the T.
Blue line runs along a hillside in a ravine and doesn't have nearly the reach into neighborhoods as the red line does. Surely you knew that's what I meant if you are as well-versed as you claim to be.
Red Line rush hour trips START at Castle Shannon, so by your logic everyone gets on at the first stop and no one gets on anywhere else. Boy, I sure spent a lot of mornings imagining that trolley stopping all of those times and picking those people up. The people standing waiting with me at Potomac and Poplar all those mornings must have been apparitions as well. Thanks for pointing that out
So do tell, if CS fills up by 7:30, and the vast majority of riders park there, how do you explain the fact that every train between 7:30 and 9:30 is filled to capacity when it reaches town?
I ride the Blue Line everyday and have done so for several years. I ride the Red Line occasionally. Always during rush hour.
Have you ever even seen the Castle Shannon park and ride lot? There are hundreds of cars parked there. You generally can't find a spot after 7:30AM. The number of people who get on after that stop is miniscule in comparison.
Most riders in Mt. Lebanon park in the Castle Shannon lot.
The Blue Line doesn't pass through neighborhoods? Ok...maybe you don't consider Carrick, Bon Aire and the area around Boggs to be neighborhoods.
I doubt you have EVER ridden the T.
Blue line is a very different animal. As you point out, there are hundreds of cars at the park and ride stops but the T does not pass through the neighborhoods you so quickly point to- it passes by those neighborhoods on the periphery. And I am not willing to suspend my disbelief long enough to believe that Routes 51 and 88 along which the Blue Line runs are the centers of those neighborhoods.
And to say that most riders park in the Castle Shannon lot if they're coming from Mt. Lebo is beyond anecdotal. It's ridiculous. Most of the folks I work with downtown who take the T walk home to their houses/apts in Dormont or Mt. Lebo. Sure there are some who Park and Ride, I just haven't met any. This leads me to conclude that no one who uses the Red Line uses the Park and Rides. Concur?
I'm thrilled you ride the Red Line occasionally. I ride the Red Line every day and walk from my house to my stop down the street in Beechview because it is a neighborhood-accessible stop. I get on the T every morning at rush hour with at least 15-20 people at my neighborhood stop and each and every stop thereafter lets on more who have no access to park and rides (further along in Beechview and coming down the hill from Mt. Washington).
I love the anecdotal "tidbits," but let's stick to how people actually use LRT that does exist rather than assuming that the 1980s/90s lives on and the only way people will use LRT is with a massive Park and Ride.
Also, how's that park and ride garage at South Hills Village goin for ya?
Blue line runs along a hillside in a ravine and doesn't have nearly the reach into neighborhoods as the red line does. Surely you knew that's what I meant if you are as well-versed as you claim to be.
Red Line rush hour trips START at Castle Shannon, so by your logic everyone gets on at the first stop and no one gets on anywhere else. Boy, I sure spent a lot of mornings imagining that trolley stopping all of those times and picking those people up. The people standing waiting with me at Potomac and Poplar all those mornings must have been apparitions as well. Thanks for pointing that out
So do tell, if CS fills up by 7:30, and the vast majority of riders park there, how do you explain the fact that every train between 7:30 and 9:30 is filled to capacity when it reaches town?
The blue line is accessible to those neighborhoods. Surely you know that if you are as well-versed as you claim to be. Those stops are rarely used by residents because it's easier to drive somewhere than it is to walk in those 'walkable' neighborhoods.
I've ridden the Red line after 7:30AM. The cars aren't 'filled to capacity'.
I know it's hard for the walkable propagandists to accept that most people don't want to walk much to get to a transit stop, but that's the way it is. Without Park and Ride lots, the T would b defunct.
Blue line is a very different animal. As you point out, there are hundreds of cars at the park and ride stops but the T does not pass through the neighborhoods you so quickly point to- it passes by those neighborhoods on the periphery. And I am not willing to suspend my disbelief long enough to believe that Routes 51 and 88 along which the Blue Line runs are the centers of those neighborhoods.
And to say that most riders park in the Castle Shannon lot if they're coming from Mt. Lebo is beyond anecdotal. It's ridiculous. Most of the folks I work with downtown who take the T walk home to their houses/apts in Dormont or Mt. Lebo. Sure there are some who Park and Ride, I just haven't met any. This leads me to conclude that no one who uses the Red Line uses the Park and Rides. Concur?
I'm thrilled you ride the Red Line occasionally. I ride the Red Line every day and walk from my house to my stop down the street in Beechview because it is a neighborhood-accessible stop. I get on the T every morning at rush hour with at least 15-20 people at my neighborhood stop and each and every stop thereafter lets on more who have no access to park and rides (further along in Beechview and coming down the hill from Mt. Washington).
I love the anecdotal "tidbits," but let's stick to how people actually use LRT that does exist rather than assuming that the 1980s/90s lives on and the only way people will use LRT is with a massive Park and Ride.
Also, how's that park and ride garage at South Hills Village goin for ya?
I take the Blue Line. Guess again.
Most of the Riders using the Red line don't get on in Mt. Lebanon or Dormont. Ride it beyond Beechview and see.
Most of the Riders using the Red line don't get on in Mt. Lebanon or Dormont. Ride it beyond Beechview and see.
Setting aside that you're either a troll or have marginal to poor reading comprehension, what am I supposed to guess again? Did I say you didn't ride the blue line?
And where in the hell are they getting on if not in Mount Lebanon and Dormont? Every time I ride out to South Hills Village/Castle Shannon, it's mostly empty well before Washington Junction/Castle Shannon.
I think there should be a loop from the Station Square station through the South Side to Oakland and back to Uptown for Duquesne. Alot of the Students and young proffesionals would really benefefit from this especially if they operated late night.
So, are you saying bring back the trolleys on the surface streets, or do you propose a subway system throughtout? Those are really the only alternatives in 'densly populated neighborhoods' aka the East End.
Isn't the T essentially the same as a trolley? A subway or elevated train or gondola or whatever other idea would certainly be worth considering, but I think running the T along surface streets would be fine. The main factor is you'd want to time it with lights and give it a dedicated right of way.
The East End is densely populated, but it's not the only area of the region that's densely populated enough to have walkable T stops. There's plenty of bus routes that get packed to the brim at rush hour and are not served by park and ride lots.
I think there should be a loop from the Station Square station through the South Side to Oakland and back to Uptown for Duquesne. Alot of the Students and young proffesionals would really benefefit from this especially if they operated late night.
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