Who's afraid of a Beltway? (Pittsburgh: find a job, airport, safest)

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by Moby Hick

I don't know about Denver specifically, but overall miles per driven in the U.S. is down. Not down nearly as much as per capita miles, but still down. If you look on the chart, you'll see that not even during the 1970s oil shocks did it stay down for so long.

https://people.hofstra.edu/geotrans/...emilesusa.html

Maybe, but not in every specific area.

[Moby Hick]

Originally Posted by Katiana

Maybe, but not in every specific area.

My point is that nationally, increasing population and decreasing miles driven are not at all incompatible. Because you seemed to be arguing that they were.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by Moby Hick

My point is that nationally, increasing population and decreasing miles driven are not at all incompatible. Because you seemed to be arguing that they were.

No, I was pointing out that classic principal of statistics; that they don't apply to every situation. If Pittsburgh's (or any city's) population were to increase significantly, the miles driven there would increase, even if the per-capita miles driven and the total miles driven in the US goes down. A larger share of those miles would be in Pittsburgh.

[Moby Hick]

Originally Posted by Katiana

No, I was pointing out that classic principal of statistics; that they don't apply to every situation. If Pittsburgh's (or any city's) population were to increase significantly, the miles driven there would increase, even if the per-capita miles driven and the total miles driven in the US goes down. A larger share of those miles would be in Pittsburgh.

That would require Pittsburgh's population to grow above the rate of population growth for the U.S. overall for a sustained period of time. That would be very surprising, even to people who expect that the decline has bottomed out.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by Moby Hick

That would require Pittsburgh's population to grow above the rate of population growth for the U.S. overall for a sustained period of time. That would be very surprising, even to people who expect that the decline has bottomed out.

The above scenario is unlikely, yes. However, something else could cause Pittsburghers to drive more miles than the national average. I don't know what that would be, just sayin'. And from what I'm reading, the roadways are inadequate for the traffic that is there now.

[Moby Hick]

Originally Posted by Katiana

And from what I'm reading, the roadways are inadequate for the traffic that is there now.

That's what people say, but I don't think the problems bad enough to be worth anything like the cost of a beltway. The average one-way commute to work in the U.S. is 25.5 minutes.

Megacommuters: 600,000 in U.S. Travel 90 Minutes and 50 Miles to Work, and 10.8 Million Travel an Hour Each Way, Census Bureau Reports - American Community Survey (ACS) - Newsroom - U.S. Census Bureau

If you look here, you'll see Pittsburgh is below that.

Pittsburgh (city) QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau

[captainmidnight]

Below is a link to a great, informative website about this area's cancelled expressways through the years. These were mainly propsed in the 60's and seems like ideas today are similar to proposed ideas from 50 years ago. The page includes a map from 1980 about what our area would like it with if these expressways had been built. You can tell there is a definite beltway: Pittsburgh Highways:* Pittsburgh's Cancelled Expressways

I have spent hours reading everything on that website. They also include histories for all the PAT Busways. Interesting that Edgewood was holding up progress the Wilkinsburg-Swissvale extension.

This one is interesting to me: http://pittsburgh.pahighways.com/exp...xpressway.html

The expressway would have ran from the PA Turnpike interchange in Irwin/Route 30 to I-79. The routing would be through the Mon Valley area and across the South Hills communities. This would have solved the problem that exists today no good east-west corridor across southern Allegheny county.

[that412]

Originally Posted by Moby Hick

That's what people say, but I don't think the problems bad enough to be worth anything like the cost of a beltway. The average one-way commute to work in the U.S. is 25.5 minutes.

Megacommuters: 600,000 in U.S. Travel 90 Minutes and 50 Miles to Work, and 10.8 Million Travel an Hour Each Way, Census Bureau Reports - American Community Survey (ACS) - Newsroom - U.S. Census Bureau

If you look here, you'll see Pittsburgh is below that.

Pittsburgh (city) QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau

Just to play devil's advocate, the commuting time statistic given there includes all methods of commuting. I don't know that that number is totally relevant to the question of whether the current highway infrastructure here is adequate for the traffic demand.

[pman]

it's my understanding that the initial conception of the interstate highway system was that it would NOT have highways through cities but that all highways would travel to or around them. I've always been curious how we got from that to the devastating urban highways that actually did get built

[doo dah]

Originally Posted by pman

it's my understanding that the initial conception of the interstate highway system was that it would NOT have highways through cities but that all highways would travel to or around them. I've always been curious how we got from that to the devastating urban highways that actually did get built

The influence of Robert Moses?