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Old 05-30-2014, 06:21 PM
 
4,176 posts, read 2,917,990 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by h_curtis View Post
If you want to stop the violence, you need to keep the kids busy in sports. They need a recreation center fully funded and many coaches and or just adults watching them play fairly. Keep them busy as little kids all the way through high school and beyond. There always need to be an outlet and if they are busy with sports, they won't have time for killing each other. It really is that simple, but it costs money and lots of it. I just heard about of a rec center starting in McKeesport. They have funded over 40 kids I believe. That isn't that many, but it is a start. The fundraising was headed up by someone in my town and that is how I know about it. It takes a ton of effort and most likely outside help because it takes funding and those areas don't have it.
I could not agree more with you h_curtis. I let my son play baseball for the inner city league for the first time this spring. I was apprehensive initially but after meeting the coach I was persuaded. After a week I asked my son about his teammates. I was shocked to hear many of them had fathers who were either murdered or incarcerated. I asked my son and his friend how they felt about it. They both felt bad for the kids and were willing to put up with some of the not so nice behavior exhibited by some. The coaches in inner city league serve as fathers, providers, counselors, and friends. The coaches deal with kids who lack male involvement. It can drain the strongest of coaches but can be rewarding.

Inner City Football keeps over 1000 young men off of the streets for three hours a day all summer long.
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Old 05-30-2014, 06:22 PM
 
43,011 posts, read 107,645,904 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wpipkins2 View Post
The snitching thing is a code between criminals who are into criminal activities. The do not snitch code has nothing to do with everyday people living in violent neighborhoods. Witnesses do not come forward do to the "do not snitch code", they do not come forward for fear of retaliation. The fear of retaliation is real and has been proven over the years. There have been many instances of witness intimidation and witnesses murdered in order to prevent them from testifying in court. The media has the facts about snitching twisted.
I knew it was due to fear of retaliation. We need to provide them with real witness protection. Witnesses for organized crime get it. IMO gangs are organized crime. Are witnesses not getting witness protection because they're black and live in the ghetto? Would they even be willing since it means leaving their community and having no contact with their large extended families forever?
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Old 05-30-2014, 06:52 PM
 
Location: The canyon (with my pistols and knife)
14,169 posts, read 22,596,535 times
Reputation: 17328
No plea bargaining for a lesser charge if indicted for a premeditated violent crime. No less than 20 years in prison upon conviction for a premeditated violent crime. No parole for anybody convicted of a premeditated violent crime regardless of the length of the sentence. Violence problem solved.
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Old 05-30-2014, 07:22 PM
 
Location: Marshall-Shadeland, Pittsburgh, PA
32,606 posts, read 77,287,663 times
Reputation: 19071
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnutella View Post
No plea bargaining for a lesser charge if indicted for a premeditated violent crime. No less than 20 years in prison upon conviction for a premeditated violent crime. No parole for anybody convicted of a premeditated violent crime regardless of the length of the sentence. Violence problem solved.
...and when we tell Pittsburghers they need to stomach a tax increase to fund increasing prison capacity?

"ZOMG! NO!"
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Old 05-30-2014, 09:08 PM
 
Location: Penn Hills
1,326 posts, read 1,998,041 times
Reputation: 1638
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelCityRising View Post
...and when we tell Pittsburghers they need to stomach a tax increase to fund increasing prison capacity?

"ZOMG! NO!"
Putting more people in prison has never worked and will never work. The United States has the highest known incarceration rate in the entire world (per capita), and by far the highest in the west and in the developed world. And how does that end up working out for the United States when crime rates are compared with other highly developed nations? It's a worldwide joke. It destroys families and builds extreme mistrust between regular people and the system, especially in the heavy handed and frequently corrupt way that police and the justice system operate. It's not the real people behind the "violence," those pulling the strings, that get hit the hardest by police. Ending the drug war is the actual answer. The current method is, and has been for a long time now, just a new Jim Crow. There's been plenty of research, journalism, books, and even real world studies that have been done on the subject, not that anyone's going to take the time to dive in and tackle the meaty stuff. For something more digestible, go watch The Wire, written and created by a long time Baltimore journalist. You once lived close enough to that neck of the woods anyway.
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Old 05-30-2014, 09:12 PM
 
43,011 posts, read 107,645,904 times
Reputation: 30710
Quote:
Originally Posted by sparrowmint View Post
For something more digestible, go watch The Wire, written and created by a long time Baltimore journalist.
The Wire is excellent. I was going to mention it. It's credible because it was written by journalists. Quite a few of the actors were actual people from the ghettos. Some of them have made nice careers for themselves too. I also highly recommend SCR rent it and watch it.
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Old 05-30-2014, 09:31 PM
 
Location: Brookline, PGH
876 posts, read 1,138,332 times
Reputation: 930
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gnutella View Post
No plea bargaining for a lesser charge if indicted for a premeditated violent crime. No less than 20 years in prison upon conviction for a premeditated violent crime. No parole for anybody convicted of a premeditated violent crime regardless of the length of the sentence. Violence problem solved.
Incarceration doesn't cure violence. That much should be obvious by now.

Eschaton hit the nail on the head: there is a subculture of frontier justice that exists within the gangster culture of poor, mostly black city neighborhoods. This is due to a myriad of social-cultural reasons most Americans are too squeamish to discuss since we only seem capable of talking about these things in superficial manners.

But anyway, I think the solutions to bringing down the highly elevated rate of violent crime that exists within poor black neighborhoods lie in increased economic opportunity, decriminalization of most narcotics, and better access to leisure activities and cultural events (which is a problem across the socio-economic spectrum for American teenagers). The length of prison sentence isn't really a concern for a mixed up kid caught up in blood feud.
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Old 05-30-2014, 09:34 PM
 
43,011 posts, read 107,645,904 times
Reputation: 30710
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimboPGH View Post
Incarceration doesn't cure violence. That much should be obvious by now.

Eschaton hit the nail on the head: there is a subculture of frontier justice that exists within the gangster culture of poor, mostly black city neighborhoods. This is due to a myriad of social-cultural reasons most Americans are too squeamish to discuss since we only seem capable of talking about these things in superficial manners.

But anyway, I think the solutions to bringing down the highly elevated rate of violent crime that exists within poor black neighborhoods lie in increased economic opportunity, decriminalization of most narcotics, and better access to leisure activities and cultural events (which is a problem across the socio-economic spectrum for American teenagers). The length of prison sentence isn't really a concern for a mixed up kid caught up in blood feud.
Totally agree with all of this. Going to prison is going to criminal college. But murders should go to prison.
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Old 05-30-2014, 09:36 PM
gg
 
Location: Pittsburgh
26,137 posts, read 25,783,846 times
Reputation: 17378
Quote:
Originally Posted by wpipkins2 View Post
I could not agree more with you h_curtis. I let my son play baseball for the inner city league for the first time this spring. I was apprehensive initially but after meeting the coach I was persuaded. After a week I asked my son about his teammates. I was shocked to hear many of them had fathers who were either murdered or incarcerated. I asked my son and his friend how they felt about it. They both felt bad for the kids and were willing to put up with some of the not so nice behavior exhibited by some. The coaches in inner city league serve as fathers, providers, counselors, and friends. The coaches deal with kids who lack male involvement. It can drain the strongest of coaches but can be rewarding.

Inner City Football keeps over 1000 young men off of the streets for three hours a day all summer long.
This isn't just true with at risk city kids either. This is true for kids in the burbs getting hooked on drugs and whatever else because they are not BUSY! Kids need sports with mentors that keep them off the street and keep them in shape feeling better about themselves. It really is the ONLY way. Everything else is bandaid crap, but other things look easier. TIME is what it is all about. Giving kids TIME!
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Old 05-30-2014, 11:28 PM
 
5,894 posts, read 6,842,546 times
Reputation: 4107
Quote:
Originally Posted by sparrowmint View Post
Putting more people in prison has never worked and will never work. The United States has the highest known incarceration rate in the entire world (per capita), and by far the highest in the west and in the developed world. And how does that end up working out for the United States when crime rates are compared with other highly developed nations?
While it shouldn't be the answer & other methods need to be looked at, you likewise can't ignore the fact that as incarceration has increased in the US crime has decreased in direct correlation
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