The 100% Truth About Good Ol Pittsburgh (Monroe: highrise, real estate, apartments)

[MissShona]

Originally Posted by vwscottie

I agree one hundred percent with BVH, and to add to it, there is a black gentleman that I work with that has a terrible dispositon towards people, he always sounds like you are bothering him when someone needs help. If I were to act like that towards customers, I would most certainly be written up or even fired.

I work with an office with 4 Hispanic women that act the exact same way...imagine that!

[BVH]

Originally Posted by MissShona

Bad behavior is never, ever justified. If you commit a crime, you should go to jail...no matter what your race is. And it's a normal thing to get "indignant" to those who gripe and complain but don't do anything to help change the situation.

I agree with you, 100%. However, my questions to you are these: What more can we do to affect change, either within the black community or from outside of it? What will it take to get folks to take an active interest in their future? My frustratation, like many others, stems from the lack of forward motion, not by an unwillingness to act to resolve the issues. (I am not being facetious here. I would honestly like your opinions/ideas.)

[moyamensing]

Originally Posted by returnedYinzer

Pittsburgh is having a major change in it's downtown right now. Right now there are 2 major condo/apartment highrises that opened. Old buildings are being turned over to apartments. New residences are being added every year. Market square is undergoing a huge renovation, a new PNC tower with apartments, hotel, and office space is going up. It will be changing for the better, but many independent stores are being turned into chains, which sucks.

Pittsburgh is unlike Philly, and more like other cities in the country where downtown is for buisness, and the happening areas at night are on the corners of downtown, like Carson St., and the strip. Philly, has a nice mix in center City.

I was just there over Christmas to visit family. While there's a smattering of development here and there, IMO, there's not that much going on. Also, a lot of it is being subsidized by the state, like the $40 million given to Piatt Place, which has yet to even get going, two years after it was first acquired. The PNC Tower, from my understanding, is also being subsidized by the state government. Four major national developers (2 from Philly, 1 from DC, 1 from Chicago) all were lured with tax breaks, but all 4 withdrew from their proposals. There's just not a market demand for living in downtown Pgh, despite all of the boosterism by the mayor and Post Gazette. In the end, how many new units have been sold downtown? Maybe 200?

Also, given how bad the retail market is in downtown Pgh, adding one or two restaurants isn't going to offset the blocks and blocks of boarded up storefronts, especially in the Fifth and Forbes areas. If the downtown is really going to change for the better, it will require a massive investment from a national developer with deep pockets, like what Miami's Goldman did to the dowdy area below Market and east of Broad (southeast Center City) in Philly. Otherwise, change will take decades, if it even happens at all.

[guylocke]

I was just there over Christmas to visit family. While there's a smattering of development here and there, IMO, there's not that much going on. Also, a lot of it is being subsidized by the state, like the $40 million given to Piatt Place, which has yet to even get going, two years after it was first acquired. The PNC Tower, from my understanding, is also being subsidized by the state government. Four major national developers (2 from Philly, 1 from DC, 1 from Chicago) all were lured with tax breaks, but all 4 withdrew from their proposals. There's just not a market demand for living in downtown Pgh, despite all of the boosterism by the mayor and Post Gazette. In the end, how many new units have been sold downtown? Maybe 200?

Also, given how bad the retail market is in downtown Pgh, adding one or two restaurants isn't going to offset the blocks and blocks of boarded up storefronts, especially in the Fifth and Forbes areas. If the downtown is really going to change for the better, it will require a massive investment from a national developer with deep pockets, like what Miami's Goldman did to the dowdy area below Market and east of Broad (southeast Center City) in Philly. Otherwise, change will take decades, if it even happens at all.

I don't mean to burst your bubble, but Pittsburgh actually has several billion dollars of costruction going on at the moment, more than any city of its size in the country.

The downtown market is quite strong and selling very well. What isn't sold is mostly the ultra expensive units. Piatt Place is also going according to plan, they will open in 2008, I toured them, and are stunning. The same investers will also be converting the GC Murphy building into units next year. The Encore has also been a huge success, they also claim almost 100% occupancy and will soon be getting a grocery store. The Heinz Lofts also do well for themselves, although I believe they'd do better if they were slightly less expensive. Last time I checked they were at 85% occupancy. Piatt Place, which only has one floor model to show at the moment and is still in early preliminary sales is at about 35% occupancy. That may not seem like an impressive number, but it's impressive enough for those investers to quickly start more projects across the street.

I believe 151st is nearly at full capacity and that invester is already looking for more land to scope up downtown.

Also, the cities occupanacy rate regarding office space is very high, higher than it's been in ages. With UPMC moving in the US Steel Building, it will be even higher shortly.

Downtown Pittsburgh will change. There IS demand for it, despite what you think. I live downtown as we speak and I KNOW there is demand cause I see and hear it every single day. That's something I don't think you qualify to understand.

It won't happen overnight, but it IS happening.

[greyhead]

I think those boarded up stores are the ones being renovated out in market square that they are speaking of. Other then that, I don't know of any other boarded up stores. There is a huge block on fifth avenue for a redevelopment plan. These are boarded up because of renovation plans. 100th Seventh street did extremely well on the Allegheny side, and 151 first side did excellent with almost all the units selling once it opened in October. The Carlysle is being turned over to apartments, a huge old highrise in the cultural district will open in 2009 for cheaper apartments, and Penn Avenue is all being turned over to apartments. I was suprised how much of Downtown Pittsburgh is going residentail.

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=100544

Here is a good link that talks about the redevelopment.

[guylocke]

The Carlysle is being turned over to apartments

I thought those were condo's. They are apartments?? I hope not. Don't forget the old Hilton is going to be turned into residentual too as they build a brand new Hilton a bit more up-town. PNC Place 3 will also have residentual and RiverParc, if it gets moving, will the most impressive project of its kind in the country in the culture district.

[MissShona]

Originally Posted by BVH

I agree with you, 100%. However, my questions to you are these: What more can we do to affect change, either within the black community or from outside of it? What will it take to get folks to take an active interest in their future? My frustratation, like many others, stems from the lack of forward motion, not by an unwillingness to act to resolve the issues. (I am not being facetious here. I would honestly like your opinions/ideas.)

Well I can name two things that I participated in that made a big impact in my attitudes towards my future...and it was pretty "small" stuff overall. Once, a Black woman in my hometown (she's a doll...currently a professor at University of Kentucky...but used to work with youth in the Mon Valley a lot) got a real estate agent (White woman who was a college friend of hers) in Upper St. Clair to take us on some home tours of houses on the market. They gathered us up in a van from a local church and we went on house tours of homes from around $200k to over 1 million. In addition to showing the homes, we ate lunch together and discussed the process you go through when you buy a house; including credit ratings, down payments, and how mortgages work. Then we wrapped it up with a pool party hosted by a young White couple (I remember the husband was a doctor) who informally talked to us about colleges. Now I was 14 years old, I and a lot of the other kids were either living in the projects or in homes that our families have owned for ages already (probably purchased when the Steel Mills were going strong). It sounds like no big deal...but the idea that these professional adults were like, "Yes, this type of life is out there and it is completely doable for you." It was a very special experience.

Another key activity was when my Godmother who lived in Washington, D.C. at the time took me along on "Take Your Daughter To Work" day. She doesn't have her own children and she was working as a paralegal in the 2nd largest law firm (Wilmer Hale) in D.C. Anyway, after about 2 hours, she was called in to a meeting and I spent the rest of the day with another young female attorney. Don't remember her name...but she was the bubbly blonde type that asked if I knew how to type (I did...although I was only 10) and when she saw how good I was, she actually put me to work! Later on she took me to some of the other offices of the other attorney's with the joke that they would be looking to hire me as soon as I came of age.

Seems like simple, simple stuff. But no one in my immediate family was a working professional (my mother was a cook in the Red Lobster...my father was a long-range truck driver. I lived with my retired Grandparents anyway). So thank GOODNESS, I sort of made it my business to put myself into environments that were not native to me (for example, I played in the South Hills Junior Orchestra....based in Upper St. Clair for years...at a great inconvenience transportation-wise).

The Black community does have some great mentors...but not enough. So big kudos to those who are not Black and can just see a bright, interested kid...catch them early and make an impact before too much discouragement sets in.

[greyhead]

Originally Posted by guylocke

I thought those were condo's. They are apartments?? I hope not. Don't forget the old Hilton is going to be turned into residentual too as they build a brand new Hilton a bit more up-town. PNC Place 3 will also have residentual and RiverParc, if it gets moving, will the most impressive project of its kind in the country in the culture district.

I am sorry, I meant condos. The one in the cultural district is apartments. RiverParc would be very impressive. It was a concern in the link that I posted. It seems like it is still going to get going. However, with our economy right now, it could always halt construction.

[guylocke]

It seems like it is still going to get going. However, with our economy right now, it could always halt construction.

Yeah, from what I hear, it actually is halted but it's not scrapped. I heard the investers are waiting to ride out the housing woes and make sure the economy is heading in a positive direction before they start. I believe we will hear more about the project this year sometime.

[moyamensing]

Originally Posted by guylocke

I don't mean to burst your bubble, but Pittsburgh actually has several billion dollars of costruction going on at the moment, more than any city of its size in the country.

Actually, as a real estate developer, I can recite the development numbers for almost every city in the US over 200k in population. Most of those "billions" consist of a few major government/civic projects in Pgh such as the casino, Children's Hospital, the hockey arena, and academic insitutional facilities at Pitt and CMU. A tiny, miniscule percentage of that money is actually going to commercial and residential market rate projects because there just isn't a demand. The last count had 400 units in the "pipeline" (seriously proposed or under-construction) in downtown Pgh. Compare that to 2000 for downtown Cleveland and a tad under 1000 for downtown Cincy, both comparable cities, IMO.

Other cities of comparable size such as St Louis, Columbus, Austin, Portland, and Kansas City all have more market rate downtown development. I think KC actually leads mid-size cities of its size in current downtown development.

The downtown market is quite strong and selling very well. What isn't sold is mostly the ultra expensive units. Piatt Place is also going according to plan, they will open in 2008, I toured them, and are stunning. The same company will also be converting the GC Murphy building into units next year.

Again, how many units have ACTUALLY (not proposed/pipelined) been added to the market and sold/rented in downtown Pgh?

You toured the model units at Piatt. The actual ones have yet to be built. Even then, we're talking about 65 units...a tiny, tiny amount of development.

The GC Murphy building will be a YMCA.

Also, the cities occupanacy rate regarding office space is very high, higher than it's been in ages. With UPMC moving in the US Steel Building, it will be even higher shortly.

Grubb Ellis lists downtown Pgh's office vacany at 20% as of Q3 2007. That's one of the highest in the nation:
http://www.grubbellis.com/pdf/natmrk...rendoffice.pdf