Where is the Ghetto? (Pittsburgh, McKeesport: house, rent, work)

[oktaren]

Originally Posted by MissShona

No one said they are no gangs here; however they are young-hoodlum, dollar-store thugs what have you compared to gangs in other cities. On top of that, the vast majority of people living in the region have no interaction with these places or people fostering the culprit activity. Believe me, there are many cities where some people need to drive at length through the ghetto to get to work (we are talking about 5 miles or so) or have significant levels of gang activity in their downtown areas (L.A., San Antonio, etc.).

Put it this way, I have an aunt that lived in Homewood for years and parked her BMW on the street. Basically went to work in Shadyside, and took her trips...came back home to sleep. Never had any problems. Meanwhile in other cities you have nice areas mingling dangerously close to fringe ghetto areas due to population surges which causes serious strife. I lived in a very Jewish neighborhood in Miami and there were 5 break-ins in 2007 where there was forced entry. One was a carjacking turned house-robbery where they made the woman drive back to her home and tied her up and left her alone afterwards. Another Jewish woman in her 60s had her home broken into at night and was robbed at gunpoint. Her answer to that was to buy a dog. Unfortunately, the going rate for housing in the neighborhood was already sky-high....it's not like you can afford to move to a "nicer" place!

I really, truly feel for innocent people who are victims of this shooting foolishness. But it came out that the girl's sister was the target...so who knows what she was involved in. The reality is if you have a family member that's involved in drugs, gangs, or whatever - you don't know what you'll liable to encounter while with them. That's just common sense.

So sure there are gangs in Pittsburgh. But they are pretty darn easy to avoid. Put it this way, there are quite a few music concerts and DJ events that were held in Miami that I would miss out on because I knew the probability of guns being brought was high (oh, and these were "multicultural" events that would draw Blacks, Hispanics, and White people ~ not necessarily "upscale", but the college crowd). Can't say that about anything I've wanted to see in Pittsburgh in my 10 years of going out.

This post is about the ghetto, and there are gangs in the ghetto.

[FrickParkMtBiker]

The thing is people have taken this post and got way to specific with the meaning of ghetto. Most of us, without having to spell everything out like Websters Dictionary would agree that a ghetto to us is an area that is not well kept up, higher crime rate, and low employment opportunities. Are there areas like this in Pittsburgh? Of course there are.

[NickyEyes]

Looks to me like 10 pages of replies has answered the question quite thoroughly. The Burgh is full of once-thriving, proud productive neighborhoods and boroughs that died off after the steel and other industry subsided. Great examples of those hoods/boroughs have been mentioned - Braddock, Clairton, Duquesne, Homestead, McKeesport, Hazelwood are all slums with with steady drug activity and violent BS. Duquesne even had their high school go out of business and had to disperse the kids elsewhere last year. Homewood (aka Little Baghdad a couple years ago), the Hill District, and large parts of the North Side (Manchester, Northview Heights, Troy Hill, now Perry South and Brighton Heights) all have street violence and lots of dope traffic. Then again, you're most likely to get mugged or stuck up in Oakland, the magical college ghetto, because of all the marks there. Tons of burglaries there too.

Pittsburgh is a safe city if you know where you're at and keep your head up.

[MissShona]

Originally Posted by NickyEyes

Looks to me like 10 pages of replies has answered the question quite thoroughly. The Burgh is full of once-thriving, proud productive neighborhoods and boroughs that died off after the steel and other industry subsided. Great examples of those hoods/boroughs have been mentioned - Braddock, Clairton, Duquesne, Homestead, McKeesport, Hazelwood are all slums with with steady drug activity and violent BS. Duquesne even had their high school go out of business and had to disperse the kids elsewhere last year. Homewood (aka Little Baghdad a couple years ago), the Hill District, and large parts of the North Side (Manchester, Northview Heights, Troy Hill, now Perry South and Brighton Heights) all have street violence and lots of dope traffic. Then again, you're most likely to get mugged or stuck up in Oakland, the magical college ghetto, because of all the marks there. Tons of burglaries there too.

Pittsburgh is a safe city if you know where you're at and keep your head up.

Your post is true; but rings wrong. I live in Clairton. There is petty crime here, but I would not call it a "slum". In Clairton, many of the empty, abandoned buildings and houses have been torn down...so there's a lot of empty lots. 2 years ago (when then were even more abandoned houses) a Russian friend came to visit me and noted that he "wanted to move here" since it was quiet. He was a CMU student and didn't know the area. Now if this were the South Side of Chicago...just by appearances alone, you would know that you wouldn't want to live there. When I had healthy legs, one of my favorite things was to get up early in the morning and go on a 3 mile walk all through Clairton. You don't even see anyone hardly except for old people.

As far as Duquesne's high school, it "closed" because of enrollment...the city has no population. That's more closely tied to economics, not crime. Seriously, there high school had only 100 or so children in the 4 grades...that school should have been closed.

These places have problems...but jeez -- I or no one that I know is actually afraid to roam around any of these places. I mean if I were into buying a doing drugs, I would probably watch my step. But seriously, we have White people...including White elderly people who live in the projects in Clairton...and they haven't been shot at or robbed. My two sisters go to Clairton schools and don't know anyone personally involved in gangs or who have been shot (although I did when I went to McKeesport High 10+ years ago). Like my cousin from Jamaica said, "Clairton just the sticks".

[MissShona]

Originally Posted by oktaren

This post is about the ghetto, and there are gangs in the ghetto.

I was addressing the previous post. My apologies for not quoting it.

[MissShona]

Originally Posted by FrickParkMtBiker

The thing is people have taken this post and got way to specific with the meaning of ghetto. Most of us, without having to spell everything out like Websters Dictionary would agree that a ghetto to us is an area that is not well kept up, higher crime rate, and low employment opportunities. Are there areas like this in Pittsburgh? Of course there are.

Well with "well kept up" and "low employment opportunities"....that's a little too broad; especially if we're talking about Southwestern PA. Take Elizabeth for example...the downtown are is just as empty and depressed as many parts of McKeesport. Yet the average home price hovers around $100k; but you wouldn't know it by looking around the heart of town. I don't really understand the "low employment opportunities" because there's a lot of nice areas around here (like Jefferson Hills) that really aren't by tons of employment opportunities (being that Jefferson Hills is right next to Clairton...I would think we would have access to the same "employment opportunities").

Finally the "higher crime rate" means you need something else to compare to -- which would need to be the rest of Pittsburgh; which has a lower crime rate than other cities. So what is "terrible war zone" here may be considered "moderately bad" to someone who has lived in other places. Most definitely, people want to live in an area as nice as they can afford. But there are many factors that come into play when picking a place to live including proximity to your job (sometimes), price, size, community, schools and safety.

I know of a Jewish family looking into the Pittsburgh area for only a few years before they move on to Israel (hopefully). They have 9 children and are looking to save as much $$$ as possible. Hands down, I suggested White Oak/McKeesport. Why? Because you can get a nice sized house for not that much money, have access to a synagogue (key for them) and be relatively accessible. As much as I love Squirrel Hill (my favorite Pittsburgh neighborhood by far), to get a 5 or 6 bedroom house over there will be much more. Aliyah (moving to Israel) drains all your disposable income and if it's only temporary then why not?

Again, it boils down to priorities; and everyone's priorities are vastly different. It would be a shame for someone to spend thousands of dollars per year extra in order to be "safe" when they either can't truly afford it or could use the money for something else.

[suzeeq521]

I think that the "low employment opportunities" is particualarly misleading, because even what some would characterize as the "high-end" places to live have few jobs, most of which aren't good and the folks that live there commute to better jobs.

I mean, look at most of the "nicer" suburbs. They don't necessarily have a lot of jobs available and most that are would be low-paying, service type jobs. I would call that "low employment opportunities".

So, eliminating that, would the only difference between "ghettos" and "high-end" be "well kept"? I think there is more to it than that, but I can't really explain it either.

[kiggis13]

Originally Posted by MissShona

Well with "well kept up" and "low employment opportunities"....that's a little too broad; especially if we're talking about Southwestern PA. Take Elizabeth for example...the downtown are is just as empty and depressed as many parts of McKeesport. Yet the average home price hovers around $100k; but you wouldn't know it by looking around the heart of town. I don't really understand the "low employment opportunities" because there's a lot of nice areas around here (like Jefferson Hills) that really aren't by tons of employment opportunities (being that Jefferson Hills is right next to Clairton...I would think we would have access to the same "employment opportunities").

Finally the "higher crime rate" means you need something else to compare to -- which would need to be the rest of Pittsburgh; which has a lower crime rate than other cities. So what is "terrible war zone" here may be considered "moderately bad" to someone who has lived in other places. Most definitely, people want to live in an area as nice as they can afford. But there are many factors that come into play when picking a place to live including proximity to your job (sometimes), price, size, community, schools and safety.

I know of a Jewish family looking into the Pittsburgh area for only a few years before they move on to Israel (hopefully). They have 9 children and are looking to save as much $$$ as possible. Hands down, I suggested White Oak/McKeesport. Why? Because you can get a nice sized house for not that much money, have access to a synagogue (key for them) and be relatively accessible. As much as I love Squirrel Hill (my favorite Pittsburgh neighborhood by far), to get a 5 or 6 bedroom house over there will be much more. Aliyah (moving to Israel) drains all your disposable income and if it's only temporary then why not?

Again, it boils down to priorities; and everyone's priorities are vastly different. It would be a shame for someone to spend thousands of dollars per year extra in order to be "safe" when they either can't truly afford it or could use the money for something else.

I can vouch for this. I grew up in adjacent Jefferson Hills and had a really good friend in HS who lived extremely close to Clairton on Worthington Ave. We would pass through Clairton frequently and, although it seems run down, I never really felt in danger there (unless your driving down around 3rd st., am I right about this?) We would occasionally go to the Golden Gate Chinese place and Clairton Beer Dist. would always be the place to go when we needed to get beer when we were underage. Depressing? Probably. A slum? Probably not.

MissShona, what part of Clairton do you live in?

[Huckleberry3911948]

a ghetto is where people treat each other bad on a consistent basis.
the rest is name calling and finger pointing.
evil does not need to be explained and examined
it needs to be annihilated with truth and love.

[Drover]

Originally Posted by MissShona

2 years ago (when then were even more abandoned houses) a Russian friend came to visit me and noted that he "wanted to move here" since it was quiet. He was a CMU student and didn't know the area. Now if this were the South Side of Chicago...just by appearances alone, you would know that you wouldn't want to live there.

I have to wonder how much time you've actually spent on the south side of Chicago and how truly familiar you are with it, because there are lot of areas down there that look a lot nicer than they really are. Chicago did not suffer nearly the same degree of population loss and subsequent disinvestment as Pittsburgh has (in fact Chicago gained population between the 1990 and 2000 census); and therefore, even many of the ghettos have a high occupancy/low abandonment rate. There are some neighborhoods where it is obvious that people have basically given up, but there are others where people are trying really hard to keep pride in their neighborhood and that pride shows during the day even as dirtbags make life difficult for everyone at night.

If anything, Pittsburgh actually has the opposite problem -- neighborhoods that look more crummy than they really are. Polish Hill and Troy Hill in particular look like they've been ransacked by Ghengis Khan but they're actually quite safe. Others look at least a little rougher than they really are such as Bloomfield and Lawrenceville. Then there are those that live up to their ragged appearance and then some; they've been mentioned enough times in this thread that it's not worth belaboring them.