Where is the Ghetto? (Pittsburgh, Wilkinsburg: attorney, income, medical)

[MissShona]

Originally Posted by kiggis13

MissShona, what part of Clairton do you live in?

In the 600 block of Park Ave.

[MissShona]

Originally Posted by Drover

I have to wonder how much time you've actually spent on the south side of Chicago and how truly familiar you are with it, because there are lot of areas down there that look a lot nicer than they really are. Chicago did not suffer nearly the same degree of population loss and subsequent disinvestment as Pittsburgh has (in fact Chicago gained population between the 1990 and 2000 census); and therefore, even many of the ghettos have a high occupancy/low abandonment rate. There are some neighborhoods where it is obvious that people have basically given up, but there are others where people are trying really hard to keep pride in their neighborhood and that pride shows during the day even as dirtbags make life difficult for everyone at night.

If anything, Pittsburgh actually has the opposite problem -- neighborhoods that look more crummy than they really are. Polish Hill and Troy Hill in particular look like they've been ransacked by Ghengis Khan but they're actually quite safe. Others look at least a little rougher than they really are such as Bloomfield and Lawrenceville. Then there are those that live up to their ragged appearance and then some; they've been mentioned enough times in this thread that it's not worth belaboring them.

I haven't been to Chicago at all actually. Was reading a story somewhere about the Black community in the South Side of Chicago where they did a "then and now" sort of thing. There were lots of pictures and interviews along with a map of the Chicago metro area. Also, if you read America Behind the Color Line Amazon.com: America Behind the Color Line: Dialogues with African Americans: Books: Henry Louis Gatesthere was a segment that focused on a neighborhood there. So I will fully admit, I don' have first hand experience there. However, I have been to "ghettos" in Detroit, Cleveland, North Jersey and Miami of course...but haven't really read any published articles or history on those areas; despite having family in Cleveland and Miami. Maybe one day...

Totally agree with the second paragraph.

[NickyEyes]

MissShona -

I accept your correction to what I said...I used the word "slum" loosely. I hear you about Clairton. The majority of neighorhoods in PGH you can spend time or live in with minimal problems, out in the sticks of Clairton included. Since most of Pittsburgh in general doesn't suffer from astronomically high (i.e. bigger-city) levels of crime, I mentioned areas that do have solid drug economies and the occasional homicide. Clairton definitely falls under that heading. Wilkinsburg, on the eastern edge of the city is my choice for the worst suburb/borough of PGH. When I lived there a couple years ago I couldn't keep track of the murders and shootings.

It is also true that you can be in Homewood or The Hill and live to tell about it with your wallet intact. That's not the rule though; no non-local white dude goes waltzing into those places in their right mind, you'd just make yourself a target. Cops also assume you're trying to cop dope; I've rolled by many intersections in Homewood where there's a dude posted up on each of the 4 corners and it's not for a neighborhood watch effort. I used to give a neighbor of mine (originally from the Hill) rides late at night up to Bedford in the Hill to grab stuff for people. He'd have me lay back my driver's seat, and the minute his car door closed, zombie fiends and dealers would come out of the woodwork and fill the empty street, trying to solicit him for sex and drugs. And this was in the dead of winter. My Dad grew up in Hazelwood; the family is all out now, and my coworker who lives there (a nice 50 yr old lady) tells me that hearing automatic gunfire is not uncommon and has been chased to her house by young scumbags many times. Nowadays the N. Side makes the news the most as far as I can tell. The city has been actively attacking crime around the PJ's by demolishing them and scattering the people. Good old St. Clair Village and Garfield Heights are gone; once both reliable places for dope and catching a bullet or two.

The bad people will always be somewhere doing bad things though, huh? We're past a dozen murders this first month of '08 I believe, on par for way too many this year for our humble hometown.

[PeterRabbit]

Originally Posted by MissShona

But seriously, we have White people...including White elderly people who live in the projects in Clairton...and they haven't been shot at or robbed.

The Daily News
10/18/2007

Clairton community stunned by murder, subsequent arrest

"Miss Flo," Florence Ranta, 82, was beaten, stabbed and robbed on Oct. 6. She died four days later in a Pittsburgh hospital.

Early Wednesday, Johnie Washington III, 15, was arraigned on charges of criminal homicide, burglary, robbery and theft.

"He was a quiet young kid, a good kid," Bradford recalled. "Lately he hung around a different crowd."

The Daily News - Clairton community stunned by murder, subsequent arrest

[MissShona]

Originally Posted by PeterRabbit

The Daily News
10/18/2007

Clairton community stunned by murder, subsequent arrest

"Miss Flo," Florence Ranta, 82, was beaten, stabbed and robbed on Oct. 6. She died four days later in a Pittsburgh hospital.

Early Wednesday, Johnie Washington III, 15, was arraigned on charges of criminal homicide, burglary, robbery and theft.

"He was a quiet young kid, a good kid," Bradford recalled. "Lately he hung around a different crowd."

The Daily News - Clairton community stunned by murder, subsequent arrest

I know exactly where that woman's house was; right up the hill from the bus stop on St. Clair Ave....and down the street from Carver Hall (the old folks home). That's not the projects...she lived in a single family home. And that kid had emotional problems (My mother went to school with his mother) and was a neighbor of the woman (not just a random thug....his house was about 4 homes away). He was not in a gang...just being stupid. Kind of like this guy:

Elizabeth Man Still Missing; Police Charge Step-Grandson In Truck Theft - Pittsburgh News Story - WTAE Pittsburgh

[MissShona]

Originally Posted by NickyEyes

I accept your correction to what I said...I used the word "slum" loosely. I hear you about Clairton. The majority of neighorhoods in PGH you can spend time or live in with minimal problems, out in the sticks of Clairton included. Since most of Pittsburgh in general doesn't suffer from astronomically high (i.e. bigger-city) levels of crime, I mentioned areas that do have solid drug economies and the occasional homicide. Clairton definitely falls under that heading. Wilkinsburg, on the eastern edge of the city is my choice for the worst suburb/borough of PGH. When I lived there a couple years ago I couldn't keep track of the murders and shootings.

Hey, I totally acknowledge that I can come off the wrong way to people on these boards. It's tough to walk the line where you are not in denial and making excuses for idiot criminals walking around; and trying to paint a more accurate picture of what reality really is -- because a few rotten apples turn the whole barrel into an unappetizing pile to some people (despite what the Osmonds say...ok, ok, only lite AM radio buffs will get that reference I guess).

Me myself, I am from Clairton, but I'm not thrilled to be here again...not because of crime or ugliness -- but because there's nothing here -- and I'm very far from a Starbucks! I'm not too comfortable with the inconvenience of it all; but if I were a retiree with a nice pension and no need to venture to downtown too often...this place would be fine - especially the Wilson and Worthington Ave. areas. My Grandfather's been here all his life and at 80 years old is doing great financially and otherwise. All of his monthly expenses are 1/3 the cost of what I was paying for rent alone...and he's not renting.

Also, just last weekend I went out and wound up at the Shadow Lounge in East Liberty. I love that place...was a superb time. My friend & I was only accosted by 1 bum (who was very articulate I must say) and that was it really. Now if I'm going to spend my money on rent, I doubt I would opt for East Liberty or Wilkinsburg or any of those places. But I'm single and I don't care about loads of space or school districts. If I needed a stand alone house with lots of room for under $500/month, I would definitely head for McKeesport or something.

However if I had some friends that opted to move to Homewood or East Liberty or whatever, I wouldn't hesitate to visit or question their choice. Years ago, I knew of a guy that made $70k+ per year and moved in with his cousin in Wilkinsburg; then 3 years later brought a sweet, gothic-style, 4-bedroom house in Polish Hill. How awesome is that?

[steveiez]

DON'T LIVE IN THE CITY OF PITTSBURGH! HIGH TAXES POOR SCHOOLS AND CRIME IN CERTAIN AREAS. NOT SAVE IN HOMEWOOD, WILKINSBURG, THE HILL, MUCH OF THE NORTH SIDE.

[londonbarcelona]

Originally Posted by Bunky39

a ghetto is where people treat each other bad on a consistent basis.
the rest is name calling and finger pointing.
evil does not need to be explained and examined
it needs to be annihilated with truth and love.

You know what? I agree. Being "poor" doesn't mean it's a ghetto, it just means the people who live there cannot afford to keep up the house.
However, if you are walking around with a gun in your pants, a pant leg rolled up, you're afraid to walk around outside at night, and you've got toilets in the front yard, then yeah, it's a ghetto.
Old is one thing, old and dirty is another. Poor is one thing, poor and trashy is another.

[NickyEyes]

Originally Posted by steveiez

DON'T LIVE IN THE CITY OF PITTSBURGH! HIGH TAXES POOR SCHOOLS AND CRIME IN CERTAIN AREAS. NOT SAVE IN HOMEWOOD, WILKINSBURG, THE HILL, MUCH OF THE NORTH SIDE.

I don't understand your use of alarming all-caps, but what you said is true. PGH has been in decay (or stagnancy at best) for a long time due to the fact that the local climate is extremely unfriendly towards business growth. High taxes in Allegheny County discourage big-time companies from opening up shop here when they can do it in a better climate in a growing city like Charlotte NC for example. Another reason for a company to avoid PGH is the unwavering tradition of unionism. The corrupt greed of the transit union here destroyed the Port Authority, paying out 6-figure pensions to retirees while we also maintain the highest-paid bus and trolley drivers in the country. They pay more money to retirees (with full benefits too) than they do active employees. With policies like that, what corporation would want to risk incurring the costs of doing business here? But alas, voters here will never wise up and vote a fiscal conservative into office. We had the chance this year and let it slip by. Mayor Ravenstahl is just a new figurehead on an old, corrupt machine that never changes.

Pardon my tangent. ; )

[londonbarcelona]

Originally Posted by NickyEyes

I don't understand your use of alarming all-caps, but what you said is true. PGH has been in decay (or stagnancy at best) for a long time due to the fact that the local climate is extremely unfriendly towards business growth. High taxes in Allegheny County discourage big-time companies from opening up shop here when they can do it in a better climate in a growing city like Charlotte NC for example. Another reason for a company to avoid PGH is the unwavering tradition of unionism. The corrupt greed of the transit union here destroyed the Port Authority, paying out 6-figure pensions to retirees while we also maintain the highest-paid bus and trolley drivers in the country. They pay more money to retirees (with full benefits too) than they do active employees. With policies like that, what corporation would want to risk incurring the costs of doing business here? But alas, voters here will never wise up and vote a fiscal conservative into office. We had the chance this year and let it slip by. Mayor Ravenstahl is just a new figurehead on an old, corrupt machine that never changes.

Pardon my tangent. ; )

You're allowed.