What suburbs are the next to be gentrified? (Pittsburgh, Beaver Falls: rentals, neighborhood)

[Katarina Witt]

I beg to differ. Here is what BCB said: " Imagine if all those people moved downtown".

S/he was not referring to a specific class of people, as NYCTelevisionWriter was, albeit negatively.

[ditchdigger]

S/he was not referring to a specific class of people, as NYCTelevisionWriter
was, albeit negatively.

I don't want to derail the topic, but perhaps I could've been more clear.

The way I read it, NYCTelevisionWriter was saying: " "The people who don't want to live downtown" aren't city people. They want space, privacy, and most importantly a homogenized and sanitized distance between themselves and members of the lower socio-economic classes."

I don't think not wanting to live downtown (which I don't), makes me part of a "class" that carries a negative connotation, any more than the term "city people" implies something negative.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by bluecarebear

All you have to do is leave the city limits and drive around the region. Go out to the growing areas of the suburbs. You can see where the money is going with the new developments sprouting up. The growth rate is insane. Imagine if all those people moved downtown.

New construction has always been mainly in the suburbs, because that's where greenfield sites are available. The city is by definition mostly developed, and neighborhoods with a plethora of vacant lots for development tend not to be hip ones (or, if they are, the lots don't stay vacant for long).

Regardless, exurb growth has always been fairly solid, although there were a few years in and immediately after the Great Recession where credit was so tight that homebuilders cut back. But there still is a major difference in terms of urban/suburban/exurban balance now compared to twenty, or even ten, years ago. New construction apartment buildings in city cores are hot, where suburban "garden apartment" complexes (particularly those of older vintage) are going downscale, and in many areas becoming the new ghettos.

Originally Posted by ny789987

As you get older, you realize that you can't change the world, but you can at least insulate yourself from those that make it unpleasant.

Like Republicans?

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by ditchdigger

I don't want to derail the topic, but perhaps I could've been more clear.

The way I read it, NYCTelevisionWriter was saying: " "The people who don't want to live downtown" aren't city people. They want space, privacy, and most importantly a homogenized and sanitized distance between themselves and members of the lower socio-economic classes."

I don't think not wanting to live downtown (which I don't), makes me part of a "class" that carries a negative connotation, any more than the term "city people" implies something negative.

Point taken. I don't want to live downtown, either. Not downtown Pittsburgh, Denver, or even downtown Beaver Falls or Louisville, CO, my present residence. However, it's not because I "most importantly (take note of the importance attached to the slur) [want] a homogenized and sanitized distance between [myself; my family] and members of the lower socio-economic classes." There is a low-income housing project and also a trailer park (a kind of DIY low-income housing project) within walking distance of my house, also a lot of small, single-family house rentals. In point of fact, in smaller suburbs such as Beaver Falls and Louisville, one lives in closer proximity to people of all economic levels than in places like D/T Pittsburgh, Denver and especially NYC!

ETA: I mainly grew up in suburban Beaver Falls, though we lived in d/t BF for several years. My parents wanted more space, a bigger yard, and a garage when they moved to the burbs.

[ditchdigger]

Point taken. I don't want to live downtown, either. Not downtown
Pittsburgh, Denver, or even downtown Beaver Falls or Louisville, CO, my present
residence. However, it's not because I "most importantly (take
note of the importance attached to the slur) [want] a homogenized and
sanitized distance between [myself; my family] and members of the lower
socio-economic classes." There is a low-income housing project and also a
trailer park (a kind of DIY low-income housing project) within walking distance
of my house, also a lot of small, single-family house rentals. In point of
fact, in smaller suburbs such as Beaver Falls and Louisville, one lives in
closer proximity to people of all economic levels than in places like D/T
Pittsburgh, Denver and especially NYC!

Your point is taken as well. And I don't disagree on the matter of "most importantly", because it's too broad a generalization. I just didn't think the "those people" phrase was worth the weight it seemed to be carrying. It didn't refer to, you know, those "those people."

I grew up in the city of Pittsburgh, lived in a first ring suburb that was even a bit more dense than my native neighborhood, and finally ended up out here in the more distant 'burbs. I like the space I have here. I like the neighbors, and the people I've met through my kids' public school and sports activities. That having been said, it's a fact that the much maligned city of Aliquippa is literally on my front doorstep, and I'm ok with that.

[nei]

Originally Posted by FallsAngel

In point of fact, in smaller suburbs such as Beaver Falls and Louisville, one lives in closer proximity to people of all economic levels than in places like D/T Pittsburgh, Denver and especially NYC!

Why especially for the central of New York City? I'd guess they'd be similar, maybe even in income diversity. Dunno where'd make that assumption. It's not like Manhattan doesn't have low income projects... Tack in a bunch of other non-market and rent stabilized housing. Tried to go through some numbers and found some Manhattan districts were somewhat more diverse income-wise (maybe less depending on how you measure) to Louisville. Some small suburbs are not diverse income-wise.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by nei

Why especially for the central of New York City? I'd guess there'd be similar, maybe even in income diversity. Dunno where'd make that assumption. It's not like Manhattan doesn't have low income projects... Tack in a bunch of other non-market and rent stabilized housing. Tried to go through some numbers and found some Manhattan districts were somewhat more diverse income-wise to Louisville. Some small suburbs are not diverse income-wise.

Some small suburbs are not diverse income-wise. Some central cities are not, either. I'm curious about your comparison of Manhattan to Louisville. How many people in each "district"? Louisville only has about 20,000 people total. Not a lot of low-income, but it's not a large geographic area, either. People of different economic levels live in close proximity. I did forget than NYC has a lot of rent-control stuff that we don't have here.

To get back to Pittsburgh and its environs, I explained why my family wanted to move out of the downtown area of BF. To accuse everyone who doesn't want to live in the downtown area of a city, whatever city, of not wanting to live near low-income people is simply inappropriate.

[nei]

[quote=FallsAngel;38072112]Some small suburbs are not diverse income-wise. Some central cities are not, either. I'm curious about your comparison of Manhattan to Louisville. How many people in each "district"? Louisville only has about 20,000 people total. Not a lot of low-income, but it's not a large geographic area, either. People of different economic levels live in close proximity. I did forget than NYC has a lot of rent-control stuff that we don't have here./QUOTE]

I was going by % not absolute number. Louisvillle has about 12% with a household income of less of $25k/year, an additional 18% between $25k-$50k.

Louisville city, Colorado QuickLinks from the US Census Bureau

Each district has between 100,000 to 170,000 people, but the area is much smaller than Louisvile (1.5-3 square miles), so close proximity. Percent of those income levels varies by each district, maybe a little lower than Louisville on average.

State of New York City’s Housing and Neighborhoods – Furman Center for Real Estate and Urban Policy

[NYCTelevisionWriter]

Thanks for the defense, Ditch Digger! I can't believe the kerfluffle I caused over the past day.

Geez some people are so sensitive these days.

OMG did I just do it again?? Am I not allowed to say "some people" either????

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by NYCTelevisionWriter

Thanks for the defense, Ditch Digger! I can't believe the kerfluffle I caused over the past day.

Geez some people are so sensitive these days.

OMG did I just do it again?? Am I not allowed to say "some people" either????

Oh, come on! It was the snark about "those people" not wanting to live around people of lower economic means that pushed my buttons. "Words have meaning".