Why is the North Side so stagnant? (Manchester, Sheffield: sales, real estate)

[I_Like_Spam]

Originally Posted by eschaton

. Pennsylvania Avenue in Manchester (where the nasty split levels are today) had its own small business district as well. .

The split levels in Manchester were built during a period of steep decline, not unlike the one on Brereton on Polish Hill.

They show the faith of a lot of people in the city, even during Pittsburgh's darkest economic days.

[RogersParkTransplant]

Originally Posted by UKyank

The idea would be to revitalize the area as a whole & it that actually (and yes, that's a very big if) would occur, then the lost tax revenue & other costs associated with razing the place would pale in comparison to the property taxes from increased property valuations, the city income tax from new residents, and tax collected from more commercial activity occurring in the area.

If Wikipedia is correct, the project back then cost $65 million - ($490 million in today's dollars) which is kind of crazy.

One last time: kicking out the people who live here is not a sustainable or even viable path to revitalization. I don't mean to pick a fight; it's just hard to swallow someone being either blind or hostile to the needs of a whole community of human beings who make their homes here. People live in Allegheny Center. I used to live in Allegheny Center, and I liked my apartment. I don't want to see it torn down. The "increased property valuations" of the North Side are happening anyway, and this means that the population of Allegheny Center would have to go somewhere else entirely if some well-meaning people come in and raze all those rental properties. You're talking about destroying a perfectly okay neighborhood just because you don't like 1960s architecture, or because you think that a park that is already huge needs to become even more huge. We are already getting new residents coming in; why do you think we need to kick out the residents who are already here, and have been here for decades?

I'm not going to keep arguing with you, but...I don't think you really understand what you're proposing. Either that, or you're conflating the view one gets of AC from the freeway with the reality of what it really is, and what it means to the people living here. I'd be all for managing it better, renovating parts of it, putting in a few more pathways and maps to help visitors navigate...but if you tear it down, thousands of people will be forced to leave, and that makes no sense whatsoever when the number one thing we need is to bring more people in.

[I_Like_Spam]

Originally Posted by RogersParkTransplant

One last time: kicking out the people who live here is not a sustainable or even viable path to revitalization. I don't mean to pick a fight; it's just hard to swallow someone being either blind or hostile to the needs of a whole community of human beings who make their homes here. People live in Allegheny Center. I used to live in Allegheny Center, and I liked my apartment. I don't want to see it torn down. .

I live in 10 Allegheny for a while in the 90's, and thought it was pretty decent as well.

Convenient as heck, even though the shopping mall feature of the community was dead by then.

Worked in town, a short bus ride into the city at the "downtowner" rate, not far to walk to the Giant Eagle, the library, parked right underneath, could pay my rent right in the lobby.

[UKyank]

Originally Posted by RogersParkTransplant

One last time: kicking out the people who live here is not a sustainable or even viable path to revitalization. I don't mean to pick a fight; it's just hard to swallow someone being either blind or hostile to the needs of a whole community of human beings who make their homes here. People live in Allegheny Center. I used to live in Allegheny Center, and I liked my apartment. I don't want to see it torn down. The "increased property valuations" of the North Side are happening anyway, and this means that the population of Allegheny Center would have to go somewhere else entirely if some well-meaning people come in and raze all those rental properties. You're talking about destroying a perfectly okay neighborhood just because you don't like 1960s architecture, or because you think that a park that is already huge needs to become even more huge. We are already getting new residents coming in; why do you think we need to kick out the residents who are already here, and have been here for decades?

I'm not going to keep arguing with you, but...I don't think you really understand what you're proposing. Either that, or you're conflating the view one gets of AC from the freeway with the reality of what it really is, and what it means to the people living here. I'd be all for managing it better, renovating parts of it, putting in a few more pathways and maps to help visitors navigate...but if you tear it down, thousands of people will be forced to leave, and that makes no sense whatsoever when the number one thing we need is to bring more people in.

The same argument was made for not demolishing the East Mall Apartment complex in east liberty - yes people were displaced, but no one can argue that the area isn't better for it now being gone.
I understand. you have a unique affinity for Allegheny Center having lived in it. I don't, most people don't & most people who speak of revitalizing the area have some variation of getting rid of Allegheny Center in mind. Yes it houses some people, but people have to move all the time for various reasons, & (in my opinion which I don't expect everyone to share) just because some people rent there isn't a great reason to not get rid of the place if it betters the area as a whole. I'm also not a fan of forced low income housing when the market doesn't warrant it as it keeps other nearby depressed areas from gaining some revitalization themselves from the spillover. Again solely my opinion.

I do realize replacing the area solely with a park is a pipe dream btw.

[I_Like_Spam]

Originally Posted by UKyank

The same argument was made for not demolishing the East Mall Apartment complex in east liberty - yes people were displaced, but no one can argue that the area isn't better for it now being gone. .

The East Mall Apartments in East Lib were welfare oriented housing projects and pretty scary ones at that.


I think they were modeled after the Carter in "New Jack City" or something.



Hardly the same as apartments that cater to taxpaying people working in the city.

[norcider]

I too remember the mall in its heyday. Had a full food court, arcade, record store, department stores and the buildings outside the mall proper as well. I then worked at the CLP location there for some years and by that time the mall was about 60% utilized, after Ross park mall opened in 86 Allegheny Centers days were numbered. Really hope there's a plan in place for the library as it was one of the most vital places in the square.

[Uptown kid]

I think they were modeled after the Carter in "New Jack City" or something.

People called the East Mall New Jack City, but they were molded after high rises seen across America. In the late 80's when the crack epidemic began, these high rises then took up this well deserved movie style reputations.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by airwave09

Reading this makes me sick to my stomach. Why was it necessary to destroy so much in this area? Just... why?!?

Blaming the highways alone simply isn't enough to explain it.

To be fair, virtually every city has examples like this, and Pittsburgh arguably got off easier than most cities in the Rust Belt. It's really only NYC, DC, and Philly, and San Francisco which didn't trash most of their neighborhoods surrounding their Central Business District. Even Boston destroyed its West End.

Originally Posted by I_Like_Spam

The split levels in Manchester were built during a period of steep decline, not unlike the one on Brereton on Polish Hill.

They show the faith of a lot of people in the city, even during Pittsburgh's darkest economic days.

As I understand it, Manchester itself (or at least the community groups) viewed them as horrible mistakes soon after they were built, which is why all of the infill from 1990 on was townhouses which made more of an attempt to be contextual with the neighborhood's vernacular.

[RogersParkTransplant]

Eschaton, which streets do you mean in Manchester? We've only really gotten to know the pretty ones.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by RogersParkTransplant

Eschaton, which streets do you mean in Manchester? We've only really gotten to know the pretty ones.

Pennsylvania is the worst. Almost entirely filled with 1970s split levels, which (IIRC) replaced the last remaining business district in the neighborhood. Some of the infill on Pennsylvania more to the eastern side was more recent, and at least tries to look contextual.

Sheffield has a few awful examples too. I dunno what they were thinking about when they did these. They look like duplexes, but they're actually fourplexes, because each has another two units strapped to their backside. I think at least two of the units facing the alley in the rear are already abandoned/condemned.