Walkability of Cranberry Township (Beaver: construction, live in, assess)

[BobMcKelvin]

I don't profess to be an expert on home prices etc, but I made the comparison to illustrate how desirability changes with time. I always presumed a suburb like Penn Hills to be the Cranberry of years past, but perhaps I am way off base.

And I do not deny that the demand is there, but to just keep building out with no real planning or foresight is not exactly prudent either. The desirability of city neighborhoods changes with time as demographics change and the areas age, I don't see why suburbia should be any different in that regard, it's just that it's still a relatively new phenomenon compared to the much older cities themselves.

Unlike SCR I am not advocating that we shut down suburbia and force everyone into the cities, but I do agree that sidewalks and neighborhood connections should be an absolute priority. And unlike erieguy I am not proclaiming to be able to predict the future either...just giving my two cents on why I don't think it's ultimately a sustainable pattern of development.

And I do think the Cranberrys and Southpointes are a tremendous asset to the region, despite not being within the city or Allegheny County. I also think the current trend of revitalizing inner cities across the US will only pick up steam in the coming decades. Sustainability is the buzz word, but really it's more about common sense, and in time I believe that will prevail. I may have distorted city goggles, but some of you have distorted "car-oriented" goggles and seem to think cars have always been here and always will be here and we should continue to plan everything around the car, when the trends are suggesting otherwise and the technology and clean energy revolutions that are still to come should help bolster that argument.

I will always acknowledge the possibility that I am wrong and I'm sure in some ways I will be.

With that being said, I much prefer sitting in the background watching the rest of you hash out these kinds of arguments, and with the conclusion of this post that's where I will return! I rarely share such a high level of agreement with any of SCR's diatribe posts, and couldn't let this one slip by without lending him some backup

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by SammyKhalifa

So that means we should scarf up as much territory as possible like an Oklahoma land grab.

Just saying is that if they had done it right the first time, your area wouldn't be spending all of this time and money and aggravation undoing was already done in such a crappy manner. I'd hope people have learned.

Again, that's the opinion of few and mostly all city folk. What you and others have issues with, we like it fine the way it is.

[tclifton]

Originally Posted by BobMcKelvin

I don't profess to be an expert on home prices etc, but I made the comparison to illustrate how desirability changes with time. I always presumed a suburb like Penn Hills to be the Cranberry of years past, but perhaps I am way off base.

And I do not deny that the demand is there, but to just keep building out with no real planning or foresight is not exactly prudent either. The desirability of city neighborhoods changes with time as demographics change and the areas age, I don't see why suburbia should be any different in that regard, it's just that it's still a relatively new phenomenon compared to the much older cities themselves.

Unlike SCR I am not advocating that we shut down suburbia and force everyone into the cities, but I do agree that sidewalks and neighborhood connections should be an absolute priority. And unlike erieguy I am not proclaiming to be able to predict the future either...just giving my two cents on why I don't think it's ultimately a sustainable pattern of development.

And I do think the Cranberrys and Southpointes are a tremendous asset to the region, despite not being within the city or Allegheny County. I also think the current trend of revitalizing inner cities across the US will only pick up steam in the coming decades. Sustainability is the buzz word, but really it's more about common sense, and in time I believe that will prevail. I may have distorted city goggles, but some of you have distorted "car-oriented" goggles and seem to think cars have always been here and always will be here and we should continue to plan everything around the car, when the trends are suggesting otherwise and the technology and clean energy revolutions that are still to come should help bolster that argument.

I will always acknowledge the possibility that I am wrong and I'm sure in some ways I will be.

With that being said, I much prefer sitting in the background watching the rest of you hash out these kinds of arguments, and with the conclusion of this post that's where I will return! I rarely share such a high level of agreement with any of SCR's diatribe posts, and couldn't let this one slip by without lending him some backup

I've lived in both cranberry and penn hills, and they couldn't be more different.

Penn Hills is congested and parts of it are high crime. Cranberry is wide open, there's hardly any crime whatsoever, and it's adjacent to country living and all that it entails. While that may not be your cup of tea, don't be narcissistic enough to think that everyone thinks like you.

As for commuting downtown, it's far easier and far faster to do it from Cranberry than it is from Penn Hills, not to mention the fact that there's as much if not more places to work in Cranberry than there is downtown.

[norcider]

Originally Posted by erieguy

City goggles sure are distorting. Many have no idea how long some of the homes/subdivisions have been there and the growth continues.

I have lived with city, country and suburban goggles and my vision is 20/20. I remember when Cranberry was just motels and truck stops. The amount of growth it's seen is incredible, and it was done with very little planning for the sorts of things we are discussing here. I lived in a small rural town with no public transportation and very little amenities every summer from the ages of 6-17, guess what, it had sidewalks! Cranberry's future is this; overpopulation and sprawl. Some people like that sort of thing, others don't.

[SammyKhalifa]

Originally Posted by erieguy

Again, that's the opinion of few and mostly all city folk. What you and others have issues with, we like it fine the way it is.

City Folk? I live in Beaver with its population of 4500.

You know how you accuse "city folk" of being blind to the issues, and to the good things in Cranberry? And being stubborn about that? Well, there's a reverse of that too. Spending any more than about five minutes in the township there should show any reasonable person that there are aspects of it that are just a damned mess and should be fixed. Don't worry--that's not admitting "defeat" or anything. It's okay to assess the bad along with the good. It's not scoring points for the "other side." It's just thinking that just maybe there's a cleaner way to do things moving forward.

And saying "we" like it that way is just false. If that were the case "you" wouldn't be trying so hard to fix it now.

[tclifton]

Originally Posted by BobMcKelvin

Sometimes you can't fix what's already engrained in people's heads. I for one am miserable with the horrible commute and traffic every day when I am used to living in the city near my job and having a short walk, bike ride, or bus ride as my commute.

You may to realize it, but there are a LOT of people who both live AND work in Cranberry.

Originally Posted by BobMcKelvin

I certainly think it's a very selfish notion to "need" that backyard and so-called privacy...

Really? You think it's selfish to have a backyard and a fence? I don't even know what to say to that kind of thinking.

Originally Posted by BobMcKelvin

...but these are also the same kind of people for the most part that are petrified to set foot in the city without thinking they're going to get mugged and/or shot by the dangerous black people they see on TV every night.

Ahh..this sentiment explains a lot. If that assumption makes you feel better about yourself, congrats.

Originally Posted by BobMcKelvin

ith letting all those other people sit in traffic every day and have no interaction with their neighbors and have to drive on those congested arterials and navigate congested parking lots for their daily shopping.

1) Lots of folks work in Cranberry
2) When I lived there we had lots of neighborhood cookouts, and I knew a lot of my neighbors.

Originally Posted by BobMcKelvin

Me...I much prefer visiting the local corner store a few times a week and shopping at the local businesses in town where you get to know the employees and have that regular interaction with folks on a daily basis.

Clearly whatever you prefer is what every other person in the world prefers (or should prefer, right?)

Originally Posted by BobMcKelvin

But our country is so messed up with their priorities and continues to push this unsustainable sprawl so that everyone can have their own little slice of the American Dream. But hey, whatever floats your boat. When all of these subdivisions are vacant in a couple of generations because the mostly cheap housing looks like crap and our kids and their kids are sick of the omnipresent traffic and vast swaths of concrete and can look around compare it to the well-planned burbs that will be much more common in that time, places like Cranberry will be looked at in the same light as Allegheny Center or Lower Hill or the East Liberty debacle that will need to be remedied because those dumbasses from years past actually thought it was a good idea!

Why all the hate for someone that chooses something different than you?

You feel like living in the city, fine. I don't mind at all. It's not for me, and it's not for lots of people, for lots of reasons.


If all this venom towards others makes you feel better about yourself, I wish you well and hope you get help for that. It's a miserable way to go through life always worrying about other people's choices and judging them just to help you feel ok.

[Tallysmom]

Originally Posted by Katarina Witt

IIRC, Tallysmom and her DH run a business. There's simply not time to saunter around to "Mom and Pop's" on a daily basis when you're doing that, or even when running a household while working a full time job, taking care of kids, aging parents, etc. Combining trips is a time-honored time management technique.




While I don't live in Cranberry, my friend and I walk almost every day, rain, snow or shine. We have a limit of 20 degrees; we don't go out "for fun" when it's below that.

Yep -- we run a janitorial company. I do have time, but I despise shopping. I've been planning to go to Nordies for some shoes and some clothing for my trip home... and I have been putting it off like you can't believe because if the store doesn't have fabric it's just a time suck. Can you imagine STEELING yourself for a shopping trip? I do not understand for the life of me going to a Best Buy or Target to "browse". That'd valuable time I could be sewing. or cooking.

And I do my normal hardware-y type shopping at the local Ace hardware, where Sylvia knows me we can chat about the latest news. I pay a few dollars more but it's well worth it.... and I can stop off at the local donut shop for a blueberry donut. Blueberries in the batter... so good.

I won't move to Cranberry when I move back. Frankly -- it's just too much there. I want to be in an area that's quiet and near either a park or large cemetery where I can walk and ride bikes and not worry about traffic. (Drivers are crazy everywhere!)

Because I am not a shopper (and that's true of a lot of people as they age, they find they have enough) I see no need to walk to stores. And I totally don't get the Starbucks love. I have a coffee pot at home, with this amazing 24 ounce coffee mug, that I get to refill. And what I do purchase, I will always have to drive to find, because sewing and quilting will never be profitable enough to where there will be a corner quilt store.

I'm fine with driving -- I, in fact, love driving. And coming home there's plenty o' cemeteries to visit with a lot of dead people I am related to in them.

And to respond to SCR -- I don't want to be seen as a Cranberry cheerleader. I'm really not. My father is rolling in his grave seeing how badly they messed up his little piece of heaven. But -- I truly dislike the hate for it. The seemingly irrational venom gets my hackles up. If you don't like it, don't live there. It's so far gone down that rabbit hole, it's not like you can change it into this little hamlet you seem to be searching for... by the way -- I don't believe your little perfect hamlet exists out of your mind.

Because there is no Nirvana.... and by not allowing yourself to be happy in the moment, you are sacrificing today for an impossible perfection tomorrow that will never happen.

[SuburbanPioneer]

Excellent posts from both tclifton and Tallysmom. Not much else to add there.

[Kippy]

There is a hamlet in Westchester named Valhalla; however, it is false advertising, as their streets do not have sidewalks. In fact, most streets that I remember from my visits had weird concrete ditches on the sides, something I have never seen elsewhere.

[UKyank]

Originally Posted by Kippy

There is a hamlet in Westchester named Valhalla; however, it is false advertising, as their streets do not have sidewalks. In fact, most streets that I remember from my visits had weird concrete ditches on the sides, something I have never seen elsewhere.

Do they at least have Viking feasts?