Anyone know about Penn Hills? (Harrisburg, Wilkes-Barre: houses, neighborhoods, buyer)

[Drover]

Originally Posted by Drover

I think maybe a when a city of less than 50,000 averages 4 to 5 murders a year, a per-capita rate about twice the national average, and with the number of murders trending up rather than down, it's possible that people might have legitimate concerns about crime and not that it's not just about race. I dunno, just a thought.

Oddly enough, Penn Hills does rank lower than the national average in just about every other category of crime. Go figure.

[armchair]

The Lincoln Park neighborhood of Penn Hills borders Homewood, East Hills, and Belmar (Pittsburgh proper neighborhoods). Of course people get shot from time to time. That however has nothing to do with the rest of Penn Hills, which is very safe.

So I repeat my original post<blockquote>As far as crime is concerned, the vast majority of neighborhoods are overwhelmingly safe</blockquote>

[Drover]

Sure, people only get shot "from time to time." What's a few murders a year? Anyone who thinks Penn Hills might have seen better days must be nuts. After all, all towns that border Pittsburgh proper have a few murders a year. Yep, every single one, without exception.

[PPG]

No they don't and Penn hills is cool but it has seen better days (a lot more shootings, home invasions, etc.. what are you talking about Chicagodude????

[Drover]

Originally Posted by pimpsgangtasandhustlas

No they don't and Penn hills is cool but it has seen better days (a lot more shootings, home invasions, etc.. what are you talking about Chicagodude????

I was being sarcastic. That's why there was a " " at the end of my post...

[armchair]

I'm not being sarcastic. Penn Hills is the third largest municipality in PA. A small portion of Penn Hills (bordering some bad city neighborhoods) has problems. The rest is fine. You can't judge an area as large as Penn hills on a few neighborhoods.....Again I stand by my previous statement.

[Drover]

Originally Posted by armchair

I'm not being sarcastic. Penn Hills is the third largest municipality in PA. A small portion of Penn Hills (bordering some bad city neighborhoods) has problems. The rest is fine. You can't judge an area as large as Penn hills on a few neighborhoods.....Again I stand by my previous statement.

Well no, it's not the third largest municipality in PA actually. Not by land area and certainly not by population. An upwardly trending murder rate -- hell, that a city of less than 50,000 even has a "trending" murder rate -- should be of concern for the entire community rather than written off as being in "a small portion." Otherwise the "small portion" will get bigger, as it apparently already has been. Oh, and you can't wish away the problem by implying those who point it out are racists.

[armchair]

You are making me write a long post.

Well no, it's not the third largest municipality in PA actually. Not by land area and certainly not by population.

You are absolutely incorrect. At 50 km^2 Penn Hill is the 3rd largest municipality, by land area, in the state. This means that Penn Hills borders urban Homewood, rural Plum, wealthy Churchill, and commercial Monroeville (just to name a few). To make a blanket statement like "Penn Hills is declining" is ridiclous. Penn Hill is a big place.

An upwardly trending murder rate -- hell, that a city of less than 50,000 even has a "trending" murder rate

Well, lets see if that makes sense. Lets look at the number of Murders in a few Pennsylvania Cities with populations under 50,000.
York 13
Harrisburg 12
Altoona 5
Wilkes-Barre 3
Note that none of these cities, unlike Penn Hills, have neighborhoods that border Homewood (a place that I think we can all agree is horrible).

One bad neighborhood in an area as big as Penn Hills does not spoil the entire municipality. It's like saying "I'd never live in Pittsburgh because East Liberty has a high crime rate"....assinine.

should be of concern for the entire community rather than written off as being in "a small portion."

Don't put words in my mouth, I never said anything like this. Of course, any crime what so ever is a problem.

Oh, and you can't wish away the problem by implying those who point it out are racists.

Ok, lets assume that race plays no part in Penn Hills image. Why then do people say things like Penn Hills is declining, when the truth is much more subtle and complicated.

I moved to Penn Hills precisly because of its image problem. Everyone I asked said Penn Hills was getting bad, but after questioning the local police I found that crime was localized. There are tons of great neighborhoods in Penn Hills where you can get a LOT of house for the money because people think in blanket terms.

Another quick fact - Average household income is above 40K (including the questionable areas). Compare that to other Pittsburgh suburbs.

[armchair]

I've been reading this thread for a while now. Some of the rationalizations are fascinationg.

Fact is fact. Problems are localized. This is not an opinion or rationalization this is a plain and simple fact.

By the way, Drover is right, Penn Hills is not the third-largest municipality in the state by area. That is something you can verify right here on this website with about 2 minutes worth of research.

You do realize that there is a difference between municipality, township, city, etc......But this irrelevent to the main point; that Penn Hills is huge.

You can't downplay Penn Hills' problems by saying "Harrisburg and Wilkes-Barre have murders too, nyah-nyah." Their problems are irrelevent to Penn Hills' problems.

Don't try to make a point by twisting what I said. Drover said "...hell, that a city of less than 50,000 even has a "trending" murder rate ..." I responded by noting that plenty of cities under 50,000 have murders.

If the murder rates in those places either triple or disappear completely, it would mean nothing to Penn Hills. Go ahead and cry "racism!" when people notice that Penn Hills' murder rate even exists, much less is climbing. It won't make the fact disappear.

I don't understand the point you are trying to make. Who's trying to make a fact disappear? I'm making the point, repeatedly I might add, that problems in a part are not equal to problems in the whole.

When a murder or drug bust happens in "the bad part" of Penn Hills, there is no statistic or sub-headline in the newspaper that says "by the way, it happened in the bad part and the rest of Penn Hills is just fine." All of Penn Hills is getting implicated. That's why people simplify a complex issue.

EXACTLY!!! And therin lies the point I've been trying to make since the begining.

Without the uptick in murders, I doubt anyone would care about Penn Hills or its racial make-up.

You are most likely 100% correct.

Penn Hills has many middle to upper-middle class extremely-safe neighborhoods. I think that because of the uptick in murders in the poorer parts of town combined with newspaper headlines that group the good with the bad makes some people mistake the diversity of good neighborhoods for high crime areas...is it so hard to believe that this happens?

I'm not accusing anyone of racism, but I think it's naive to think it doesn't play a role.

There didn't even used to be a "bad part." The fact that there now is a bad part for whatever reason, even because it borders Homewood, gives some credence to the claim that Penn Hills is declining. It's true enough that not all of Penn Hills is declining, but all of Penn Hills owns the problem.

I can agree that Penn Hills is declining (meaning some parts are not as safe as they used to be). I completely disagree that Penn Hills is declining (meaning avoid the whole municipality).

[armchair]

by the way markfromgreensburg. Even though Penn Hills borders Homewood the average Penn Hills household earns 131% the average Greensburg household.

Money talks and that's fact.