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Old 07-18-2015, 12:52 PM
 
5,802 posts, read 9,852,741 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I_Like_Spam View Post

But you get more push-back over your attitude toward those with a different view, or live in the vast majority of Allegheny County where transit is very limited-rather than the fact you are pro-public transit.
Then you guys should push POL for better transit, to your parts of the County, not to widen the Parkways and for more free parking in town. It's guess is you DONT WANT THE TRANSIT, you want your Cars.

My attitude isn't over a "different point of view", my attitude is over a stubborn bias against Public Transit and mindset that is Personal Cars first, everything else second, and those like yourself and other that live in this bubble "the Yinzer" who refuse to see viable alternatives.

I'm not the one with the problem, you stubborn car-dependant "Yinzers" are. I Love Change, I embrace change, I don't rail against it.
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Old 07-18-2015, 01:06 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
3,298 posts, read 3,857,802 times
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Here is an argument to own both: I would hate to be stuck in the city without the option to leave town. The surrounding areas offer amazing outdoor opportunities and events that those carless will never experience. For people moving here from other cities, you don't know what you are missing if you never leave the city. An example would be seeing Falling Water.
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Old 07-18-2015, 02:10 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
6,782 posts, read 9,528,967 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluecarebear View Post
Here is an argument to own both: I would hate to be stuck in the city without the option to leave town. The surrounding areas offer amazing outdoor opportunities and events that those carless will never experience. For people moving here from other cities, you don't know what you are missing if you never leave the city. An example would be seeing Falling Water.
If you think the occasional trip out of the city is a reason to own a car (as opposed to renting one), you must have more money than even the East End hipster with the biggest trust fund.
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Old 07-18-2015, 04:51 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh's North Side
1,701 posts, read 1,587,748 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.BadGuy View Post
Those wishing America would model itself after European countries forget the size and geographic diversity of the nation. A country like England is very compact. This country is enormous and has highly variable terrain.
I don't actually disagree with what you're saying, but for the record one of the things that attracted me to Pittsburgh is that much of the city really is built on a European scale. I do think that just a few long-distance train lines would make a huge difference around here, but that's a separate thread -- within the city of Pittsburgh, I am impressed at how easy it is to get around by bus, and much of that has to do with the small, practical scale of the older neighborhoods in the city.

There's only one bus line that services my neighborhood, but my "neighborhood" is smallish and I live towards its edge, so if I miss my bus I can walk to other lines in about 15 minutes. Thanks to Google maps and the PAT bus tracker on my phone, I don't actually miss the bus very often.

I don't know why there is so much anger on this thread. I do think that there is a sort of resistance to riding the bus, and I do meet people (in real life, not on the internet) who make thinly-veiled comments about the bus being for "poor people" and "minorities" -- but those people are usually quite a bit older than I am, and I think they see the world through a very different lens than most people of my generation. I meet a lot of my neighbors through riding the bus, and it's true that my neighborhood on the North side has a lot of social, economic, and racial diversity in it. That's a big part of what I like about riding the bus, actually, and what I like about living here. I'm not mad at all the people sitting in their cars on the freeways at rush hour, but I do feel very glad that I am not in their shoes or paying for their gas.

Of course, my employer pays for my bus pass -- that's a huge, huge perk that a lot of big employers in this city have worked into their budgets. That's a great partnership of private and public interests, and I hope to see more of it in the future. Most of the younger people in my office do decide to live in the city and ride the bus to Oakland, and the fact that the bus is free and parking is expensive plays a big role in that. I bear no grudge against the people who decide to drive; I just like having an alternative that suits my lifestyle better, and happens to be a little better for the environment, too.
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Old 07-18-2015, 05:11 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
6,782 posts, read 9,528,967 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.BadGuy View Post
You raise an important point about places with limited transit access. Those wishing America would model itself after European countries forget the size and geographic diversity of the nation. A country like England is very compact. This country is enormous and has highly variable terrain. Building transit that connects all the cities and suburbs is currently impossible, for a variety of reasons, and shortages in funds is but one piece of that. I remember a few rounds of PAT cuts that had people fuming because the sole bus that passed by their place was being removed. But it's hard to juggle the needs of the large population centers and still cover the areas where most everyone drives save for the couple elderly people and teenagers who can only travel by bus. With limited funds, the money is going to be allocated to the areas with the highest ridership. You can see that on a national scale too, with bigger cities building out and smaller ones contracting their transit. It's a nuanced issue no doubt. And it's hard to solve in a big country with diverse people, terrain, and priorities.

It's almost all shortage of funds. The vastness of the U.S. plays a role in why we don't have inter-city rail, but not local mass transit. The reason U.S. cities are often more built out than in Europe is entirely a matter of tax policy and subsidies (e.g. gasoline taxes far below levels that capture the negative externalities of driving/pollution, large scale subsidies for single-family housing, highways, etc.).
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Old 07-18-2015, 05:38 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh's North Side
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moby Hick View Post
It's almost all shortage of funds. The vastness of the U.S. plays a role in why we don't have inter-city rail, but not local mass transit. The reason U.S. cities are often more built out than in Europe is entirely a matter of tax policy and subsidies (e.g. gasoline taxes far below levels that capture the negative externalities of driving/pollution, large scale subsidies for single-family housing, highways, etc.).
Agreed -- and that comes from an American dream/myth of the big house, surrounded by a big yard, with big cars in the big garage.

I still think that's a generational thing too; younger people are not nearly as invested in this particular vision, and would far rather find a snug, cozy old house in the city where they can walk or ride the bus to the places where they need to go. I would not be surprised one bit to see Pittsburgh building a light rail 10 or 20 years from now, because people will start voting against gasoline subsidies and in favor of public transit, and also because once more people choose to live in the city we'll have fewer abandoned buildings and a stronger tax base to support infrastructure.
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Old 07-19-2015, 08:13 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
7,541 posts, read 10,203,280 times
Reputation: 3509
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbeauty212 View Post
Then you guys should push POL for better transit, to your parts of the County, not to widen the Parkways and for more free parking in town. It's guess is you DONT WANT THE TRANSIT, you want your Cars.

My attitude isn't over a "different point of view", my attitude is over a stubborn bias against Public Transit and mindset that is Personal Cars first, everything else second, and those like yourself and other that live in this bubble "the Yinzer" who refuse to see viable alternatives.

I'm not the one with the problem, you stubborn car-dependant "Yinzers" are. I Love Change, I embrace change, I don't rail against it.

Its just not practical to expand LTR to every subdivision in the country, to service the areas that people need to go to.


How much do you think it would cost to provide convenient, fast LTR service to connect the Robinson Mall and the various schools and office complexes in Findlay and North Fayette, with all of the communities out that way? And that is just a tiny slice of the country.

Public transit just isn't very economically viable among less densely populated areas.

My brother lives in North Fayette, he works in Ross, his wife works in little Washington and the boy works in Robinson, all with different schedules. It would be cheaper for the Port Authority to provide them with a chauffeur on call
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Old 07-19-2015, 10:48 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
3,298 posts, read 3,857,802 times
Reputation: 3141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moby Hick View Post
If you think the occasional trip out of the city is a reason to own a car (as opposed to renting one), you must have more money than even the East End hipster with the biggest trust fund.
Last I checked most people owned cars. Your rationale is that everyone that uses public transit is in poverty and those outside any regular bus route is rich.

I've always been one of the biggest supporters of mass transit on this forum but will I ever give up my car in Pittsburgh? No. NYC or Boston? Yes.
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Old 07-19-2015, 10:54 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh
3,298 posts, read 3,857,802 times
Reputation: 3141
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogersParkTransplant View Post
Agreed -- and that comes from an American dream/myth of the big house, surrounded by a big yard, with big cars in the big garage.

I still think that's a generational thing too; younger people are not nearly as invested in this particular vision, and would far rather find a snug, cozy old house in the city where they can walk or ride the bus to the places where they need to go. I would not be surprised one bit to see Pittsburgh building a light rail 10 or 20 years from now, because people will start voting against gasoline subsidies and in favor of public transit, and also because once more people choose to live in the city we'll have fewer abandoned buildings and a stronger tax base to support infrastructure.
I don't know. Expansion of the T died about 6 years ago. The PA gas tax is kicking in and our prices are at least 20 cents higher than Ohio's. What is the response? Throw the tax money at the main corridor highways.
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Old 07-19-2015, 12:44 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh's North Side
1,701 posts, read 1,587,748 times
Reputation: 1849
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluecarebear View Post
I don't know. Expansion of the T died about 6 years ago. The PA gas tax is kicking in and our prices are at least 20 cents higher than Ohio's. What is the response? Throw the tax money at the main corridor highways.
Yeah, I know. I just don't think it will always be like this. And I understand that many people who choose to live and work in the suburbs will not find it practical to take public transportation; I just think that a larger percentage of people will choose against suburbs in the future, in part for this very reason. Not everyone, of course, and that's fine too.
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