Chestnut Street (Deutschtown, Spring Garden) (Pittsburgh, Manchester: tax lien, insurance, mortgages)

[sealie]

You asked people who disagree with you not to post, so they're not posting, out of courtesy. It would be equally courteous if you would not sniff about them being ignorant and shortsighted, while they are being kind enough to comply with your request. If you want to talk about the building, fine, but slagging on your silent detractors when they can't defend themselves without violating your request is not cool.

[doo dah]

Originally Posted by sealie

You asked people who disagree with you not to post, so they're not posting, out of courtesy. It would be equally courteous if you would not sniff about them being ignorant and shortsighted, while they are being kind enough to comply with your request. If you want to talk about the building, fine, but slagging on your silent detractors when they can't defend themselves without violating your request is not cool.

^^^ this.

[RogersParkTransplant]

Sorry. I don't think anyone is ignorant or short-sighted. Apologies for giving that impression. I do think a lot of people don't care about architecture, but I don't mean that as an insult. The generally tense and angry atmosphere around here is awful and I am genuinely sorry to have added to that.

[sealie]

You might also be interested to know that the MWS escaped demolition in the 1960s mostly due to some active community involvement, and the area was not always sacrosanct, or even nice. There was recently (year or two ago) a push to extend the "historic" designation to the surrounding area, which met with some opposition from nearby (poor) residents who thought they'd be forced out or have to comply with restrictions on what they could do with their house. I'm not sure how it got resolved. Point being, the MWS architectural untouchability is not a result of the largesse of the city government. Other point being: it's not always not caring about architecture, sometimes it's not caring as much about architecture.

[RogersParkTransplant]

I do know a lot about the MWS, but thanks for posting that information for those who may not. Manchester also has a great history of community preservation efforts, as I am sure you also know. I find it difficult to strike the right balance with historic designations, which is part of the source of my frustration - I was here for the push you're talking about, and I do understand the anxiety coming from residents who feel they may get pushed out, and that's part of why I think we have to be careful with the official "historic" designation. It can at times get in the way of creative re-use and cause unnecessary red tape. It's just heart-breaking when the alternative is straight demolition.

I'm not a purist when it comes to preservation - not at all - but I am sincerely worried about Chestnut Street and the surrounding blocks, because it's a particularly extreme example of buildings that are on the one hand truly irreplaceable, and on the other hand almost entirely overlooked by the people who could do something to save it. I'm trying to figure out what I can do myself to help, and there is some sympathy around here, but it's not easy.

[norcider]

It was the old Star Lounge. Before my time but a well known North Side bar. Supposedly had gotten pretty rough in years before its closing.

[RogersParkTransplant]

Originally Posted by norcider

It was the old Star Lounge. Before my time but a well known North Side bar. Supposedly had gotten pretty rough in years before its closing.

Wow, thanks for sharing that - I have often wondered about the businesses that used to be on Chestnut, so it's good to have a name to look up. This also explains the traces of stars that were painted on the facade...

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by sealie

You might also be interested to know that the MWS escaped demolition in the 1960s mostly due to some active community involvement, and the area was not always sacrosanct, or even nice. There was recently (year or two ago) a push to extend the "historic" designation to the surrounding area, which met with some opposition from nearby (poor) residents who thought they'd be forced out or have to comply with restrictions on what they could do with their house. I'm not sure how it got resolved. Point being, the MWS architectural untouchability is not a result of the largesse of the city government. Other point being: it's not always not caring about architecture, sometimes it's not caring as much about architecture.

Just as a point of clarification, my understanding is much of the opposition to the recent expansion of the Mexican War Streets was not grassroots, but drummed up by the largest Section 8 landlord in the affected blocks, who didn't want to have the expense of improving the facades of the dozens of properties they managed in the area.

Anyone who spends time there can see that entire area is gentrifying at a pretty rapid pace. Barely any habitable house goes on the market for under $275,000 anywhere in the Central North Side any longer, and all the infill is market rate. It's just a matter of time before the entire low-income black community is pushed out.

Originally Posted by RogersParkTransplant

I'm not a purist when it comes to preservation - not at all - but I am sincerely worried about Chestnut Street and the surrounding blocks, because it's a particularly extreme example of buildings that are on the one hand truly irreplaceable, and on the other hand almost entirely overlooked by the people who could do something to save it. I'm trying to figure out what I can do myself to help, and there is some sympathy around here, but it's not easy.

Pittsburgh is really hamstrung by state and local regulations which make it incredibly hard to seize blighted properties unless they are tax delinquent. It's even hard to seize tax delinquent properties unless they have been delinquent for many years - which means they've likely deteriorated, and the properties have various other tax and utility liens on them which need to be settled with tens of thousands of dollars cash up front - often much higher than the ultimate value of the home if it's restored. I read recently that Lawrenceville has around 300 "hard case" houses which are still vacant - which says a lot considering how hot the neighborhood is and how in demand another 300 units would be in the neighborhood.

[RogersParkTransplant]

That's interesting about section 8 landlords and the opposition - I really thought it came from older homeowners, but I could easily be wrong.

I do think it's important to recognize that the low-income community and the black community around here are not the same thing. There's plenty of overlap, yes, but also significant levels of poverty among whites, and also a healthy middle-class African-American population. So yes, the area is changing fast and I do wonder how long the affordable rentals will last, but I don't see the racial diversity disappearing altogether. To name my favorite example, our fantastic new tea shop on E Ohio St is owned and operated by a beautiful black family, and it attracts a wonderfully diverse crowd of patrons.

Meanwhile, that's depressing about Lawrenceville, but it does illustrate why I am ambivalent about adding more regulations. It's hard to know what will help, and what won't.

[Lobick]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Just as a point of clarification, my understanding is much of the opposition to the recent expansion of the Mexican War Streets was not grassroots, but drummed up by the largest Section 8 tenant in the affected blocks, who didn't want to have the expense of improving the facades of the dozens of properties they managed in the area.

This is exactly true. Although, to be clear, the Historic District designation wouldn't require any expense or improvement of the facades. Everything that currently exists on a house is grandfathered in. A real driving force behind the expansion was to prevent demolitions of the existing housing stock. There was and is concern that the same landlord (Mistick) will choose to demolish historic structures. The true "grassroots" of the neighborhood had worked for two years to get the expansion going. Still waiting on Councilman Lavalle's compromise proposal.