What would YOU do about Pittsburgh's schools? (Mount Lebanon, McCandless Township: low income, house)

[WhoIsStanwix?]

Originally Posted by I_Like_Spam

The number of students in the city schools has really plummeted over the years, that increases spending on a per capita basis.

I graduated from Langley, back in the day, we had 2400 pupils in attendance the year I left, it had less than 1/4 of that number when they closed their door forever.

Fixed costs are a bear...

[North Beach Person]

They've been trying to "fix" Pittsburgh schools since Jerry Olson was Superintendent. That was when, 1980 or thereabouts?

[UKyank]

The first step would be accepting that the school district actually sucks.....way too many people will swear up & down that they're fine & just as good as any other school & it's just dumb parents who move to 'better' districts outside of the city.

[ex-burgher]

Originally Posted by UKyank

Allegheny County schools with better performance include (2014 state test scores):
North Allegheny
Mt. Lebanon
Upper St Clair
Moon
Quaker Valley
Montour
South Fayette
West Allegheny
Hampton
Plum
Pine-Richland
West Jefferson Hills
Chartiers Valley
Bethel Park
North Hills
Deer Lakes
Fox Chapel
Baldwin-Whitehall

I wonder how the data stacks up if you compare only white students between Alderdice and the suburban schools. Someone has posted in the past that the test scores are equivalent.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by ex-burgher

I wonder how the data stacks up if you compare only white students between Alderdice and the suburban schools. Someone has posted in the past that the test scores are equivalent.

Looking at PSSA scores for white 11th graders, Allderdice is the 13th highest ranked high school in the county for math (out of 52 with measurable scores). The Pittsburgh magnet high schools all do better - Sci-Tech is the 11th best, CAPA is the 8th best, and Obama is the absolute best (although admittedly it only has 30 white 11th graders, which might mean a small sample size is throwing off the average).

On reading it scores even better. Allderdice is the 7th highest scoring. Obama, CAPA, and Sci-Tech are numbers 1, 2, and 3 respectively.

It should be no surprise that the white students at the magnets do a bit better than Alderdice. Although there are huge racial disparities in test scores, there are also smaller differences due to class. A fair number of working-class white kids from Lincoln Place, Greenfield, and Swisshelm Park still go to Allderdice. For the exact same reason, Fox Chapel Area and Quaker Valley lag a bit compared to Upper Saint Clair, North Allegheny, Hampton, and Mount Lebanon.

[eschaton]

Let me just say, as I have in the past (and as my post above intimates) there is nothing wrong with Pittsburgh schools from an educational standpoint, other than they are perceived as undesirable because the majority-black student body pushes the aggregate test scores lower. This can set up a vicious cycle, because a rise in the black percentage of a school can be enough to cause test scores to decline, which in turn scares away middle-class parents of all sorts, who are predominantly white, which causes scores to slip again. Since the only reason they score worse is a higher black enrollment, there is ultimately no way test scores will rise unless.

1. More middle-class white parents choose to enroll their kids in neighborhood schools.

2. So many lower-income black families are gentrified out of the City that the total black student body declines.

I'd like to think the first is how it will happen, but I think it's more likely going to be the second leading to he first. You can see perhaps the beginnings of this with Wooslair K-5 in Pittsburgh. The feeder zone for this school is the Strip District, Lower Lawrenceville, Polish Hill, Bloomfield, and Friendship - all neighborhoods which are majority white, and getting whiter as they gentrify. White flight happened from Woolslair years back, but there began to be so few black families left in the area that Pittsburgh was considering closing the school entirely. Instead an effort was made to turn it into a partial STEM magnet elementary school. The decline in school enrollment has ended. The black population continues to fall, but the white student body has begun to rise. A few years back it was around 75% black, IIRC. Now it's only 57% black and 33% white. A few more years like this and the school will be reestablished as a "good" neighborhood elementary. It will still be seen as problematic given it feeds to Arsenal 6-8, and then high school in the Hill District, but it will be a step forward for the district as a whole.

[Retiredcoach]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Let me just say, as I have in the past (and as my post above intimates) there is nothing wrong with Pittsburgh schools from an educational standpoint, other than they are perceived as undesirable because the majority-black student body pushes the aggregate test scores lower. This can set up a vicious cycle, because a rise in the black percentage of a school can be enough to cause test scores to decline, which in turn scares away middle-class parents of all sorts, who are predominantly white, which causes scores to slip again. Since the only reason they score worse is a higher black enrollment, there is ultimately no way test scores will rise unless.

1. More middle-class white parents choose to enroll their kids in neighborhood schools.

2. So many lower-income black families are gentrified out of the City that the total black student body declines.

I'd like to think the first is how it will happen, but I think it's more likely going to be the second leading to he first. You can see perhaps the beginnings of this with Wooslair K-5 in Pittsburgh. The feeder zone for this school is the Strip District, Lower Lawrenceville, Polish Hill, Bloomfield, and Friendship - all neighborhoods which are majority white, and getting whiter as they gentrify. White flight happened from Woolslair years back, but there began to be so few black families left in the area that Pittsburgh was considering closing the school entirely. Instead an effort was made to turn it into a partial STEM magnet elementary school. The decline in school enrollment has ended. The black population continues to fall, but the white student body has begun to rise. A few years back it was around 75% black, IIRC. Now it's only 57% black and 33% white. A few more years like this and the school will be reestablished as a "good" neighborhood elementary. It will still be seen as problematic given it feeds to Arsenal 6-8, and then high school in the Hill District, but it will be a step forward for the district as a whole.

I take great offense to when any individual, or group of individuals, attribute the color of a child's skin to his/her achievement in our schools. Pure and simple, you are attributing blame for the the lackluster performance of the Pittsburgh schools upon exactly such an outrageous premise. If the Ku Klux Klan wanted additional propaganda to espouse their hatred, your post would be an ideal starting point. My question to you would be, what percentages of child's skin tone differentiates a black child from an interracial child, from a white child, from an Hispanic child, from an Asian child, and so on, that gives your premise any level of truthfulness? If you want the real reasons behind the lousy achievement scores of PPS, start first by looking at each community's inherent population- the poverty levels, the genetics, and/or the family dysfunction- before blaming the poor results upon the tone of a child's skin.

[Goinback2011]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Let me just say, as I have in the past (and as my post above intimates) there is nothing wrong with Pittsburgh schools from an educational standpoint, other than they are perceived as undesirable because the majority-black student body pushes the aggregate test scores lower. This can set up a vicious cycle, because a rise in the black percentage of a school can be enough to cause test scores to decline, which in turn scares away middle-class parents of all sorts, who are predominantly white, which causes scores to slip again. Since the only reason they score worse is a higher black enrollment, there is ultimately no way test scores will rise unless.

1. More middle-class white parents choose to enroll their kids in neighborhood schools.

2. So many lower-income black families are gentrified out of the City that the total black student body declines.

I'd like to think the first is how it will happen, but I think it's more likely going to be the second leading to he first. You can see perhaps the beginnings of this with Wooslair K-5 in Pittsburgh. The feeder zone for this school is the Strip District, Lower Lawrenceville, Polish Hill, Bloomfield, and Friendship - all neighborhoods which are majority white, and getting whiter as they gentrify. White flight happened from Woolslair years back, but there began to be so few black families left in the area that Pittsburgh was considering closing the school entirely. Instead an effort was made to turn it into a partial STEM magnet elementary school. The decline in school enrollment has ended. The black population continues to fall, but the white student body has begun to rise. A few years back it was around 75% black, IIRC. Now it's only 57% black and 33% white. A few more years like this and the school will be reestablished as a "good" neighborhood elementary. It will still be seen as problematic given it feeds to Arsenal 6-8, and then high school in the Hill District, but it will be a step forward for the district as a whole.

As long as kids in the targeted high schools get $40K for college based on a 2.5 GPA, minorities won't be leaving the Pittsburgh public schools.

[guy2073]

Your idea to fix city schools is to price out the black family's so they move to other districts? You are beginning to sound a little racist.

[I_Like_Spam]

Originally Posted by Goinback2011

As long as kids in the targeted high schools get $40K for college based on a 2.5 GPA, minorities won't be leaving the Pittsburgh public schools.

A lot of minorities of low economic standing may get priced out of the city. And for those who are living in really rough areas in, e.g., Homewood Brushton, is the 40k for college enough to prevent them from moving on up to a different community, perhaps outside of the city?