For those that play down the existence of gangs....... (Pittsburgh: apartment, school)

[simetime]

Hey aveojohn, If I was white (welcomed) in every neighbor such as Murryville or Brentwood or even if I had the money to afford to live in parts of Fox Chapel or other affluent areas don't you think that I would move? Some people excel in familiar surroundings and find safety from living around their own (even if it really isn't safe). Some bought nice houses years ago in nice neighborhoods that for whatever reason became the "HOOD" and now they can't afford to leave.

Aveojohn, you are an intelligent person if you paid 400,000 for your house and for whatever reason the property values began to drop drastically b/c of the surrouding area, would you move if you could?

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by Dysiple23

...don't be so quick to judge people by where they're from or by they're common vernacular . . . it's just the way i type . . . . . ***** lol

For what it's worth, aveojohn's grammar/typing isn't much better than yours.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by Dysiple23

i dont mean to offend anyone on this forum or watever but how many of you acktually have experience in the "Hood" in Pittsburgh, how many of you have acktually been to East Hills or Homewood Or The Hill, Manchester Or HoodTown or Larimer or Wilkinsburg....Its not as hardcore as in the 90's but its still around. Anyone thats Really from the hood would know that...

In the 80s, my first husband and I lived in Manchester on Liverpool Street and then later we moved around the corner to North Franklin Street. Both apartments were absolutely beautiful, but what a difference 1-1/2 blocks can make when it comes to tollerance.

We had fantastic neighbors on Liverpool Street. They baked us pies and invited us to parties. We loved it there. Then we decided to move around the corner to a larger apartment and life became rather frightening. When I would drive home, people standing on the corner would chase my car down the street. It was a race to see if I could get in the door before they arrived. They did the same when my girlfriends visited. I knew they were just trying to intimidate us. Afterall, if they really wanted to harm us, they would have been waiting at the apartment building, not standing on the corner to chase us down the street.

We ultimately moved when one of the apartment windows was shot out while we were at work. There was a risk that the attacks could escalate so we allowed ourselves to be run out of the neighborhood. We figured we couldn't force our progressiveness onto others.

Gang activity? I wouldn't necessarily categorize it as gang activity, not the type of gangs like in LA. These guys weren't any different than the guys who would stand on the corners on Chestnut Street at the bottom of the hill from Spring Hill (yeah, I lived there too---1st husband was from North Side.) They were just drug dealers---relatives and friends hanging out on the corner selling drugs. The only difference was color. Period. We happened to be the wrong color for the group that hung out on the corner of North Franklin & Manhattan Streets.

If you guys call these groups 'gangs,' then I knew gang members personally. Come on! The 'gangs' of the 80s were NOT anything like what happens/happened in LA, and what happens in Pittsburgh today isn't either. Anyone who thinks so is either living vicariously or ultra paranoid---depending on which side of the argument you embrace.

Homewood was a bad area of the city, but I think it was safer in the 80s than it is today. My girlfriend dated someone who lived in Homewood. We went there all the time. And I have NEVER had a problem whenever I have been in the Hill District, not back in the 80s nor today, NEVER.

Now I've raised these suburban children who have no street smarts whatsoever. They're in college and becoming friends with kids from all over the city---including these neighborhoods (because I raised them right and they don't judge people by the color of their skin or the amount of money in their bank account). As a result, I'm learning all about the neighborhoods I don't know (Lincoln) and I'm catching up on the ones I do know.

Their friends probably think I'm racist because I tell them to keep my kids safe when I drop them off. LOL But a mother knows if her children have street smarts. I wasn't raised in the city, but I had street smarts naturally. My children, not so much. Now I'm trying to give them a crash course, but they're teenagers, and teenagers aren't really into listening to their parents.

I digress from that rabbit trail I just went down.

My POINT is that Pittsburgh does have it's share of violence, but it's still nothing compared to what's happening in larger cities.

There...is...just...no...comparison.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by simetime

Hey aveojohn, If I was white (welcomed) in every neighbor such as Murryville or Brentwood or even if I had the money to afford to live in parts of Fox Chapel or other affluent areas don't you think that I would move? Some people excel in familiar surroundings and find safety from living around their own (even if it really isn't safe). Some bought nice houses years ago in nice neighborhoods that for whatever reason became the "HOOD" and now they can't afford to leave.

Aveojohn, you are an intelligent person if you paid 400,000 for your house and for whatever reason the property values began to drop drastically b/c of the surrouding area, would you move if you could?

I haven't read this thread so I'm not really sure what your post above is about, but I'm jumping off your "white (welcomed)" comment. I'm going out on a limb here because I think you will respect what I'm about to say.

You really need to get out into the suburbs more often. You're not unwelcome, not like I was in Manchester. You won't get threatened. You won't get your windows shot out. Some people might be stand-offish. Some elderly people might whisper among themselves. But, for the most part, the attitude in the suburbs has really changed for the better. Believe it or not, there are people who truly want to be friends.

It's going to take decades more before this is all behind us (I truly believe with the progress that has been made in the past 40 years, it will be behind us someday). In order for that to happen, EVERYONE needs to learn how to extend some trust and step outside of the comfort zone.

[Little Mizz Pittsburgh]

Originally Posted by Hopes

Gang activity? I wouldn't necessarily categorize it as gang activity, not the type of gangs like in LA. These guys weren't any different than the guys who would stand on the corners on Chestnut Street at the bottom of the hill from Spring Hill (yeah, I lived there too---1st husband was from North Side.) They were just drug dealers---relatives and friends hanging out on the corner selling drugs. The only difference was color. Period. We happened to be the wrong color for the group that hung out on the corner of North Franklin & Manhattan Streets.

If you guys call these groups 'gangs,' then I knew gang members personally. Come on! The 'gangs' of the 80s were NOT anything like what happens/happened in LA, and what happens in Pittsburgh today isn't either. Anyone who thinks so is either living vicariously or ultra paranoid---depending on which side of the argument you embrace.

You're right about the gangs of the 80's. I was a teenager in the 80's and we didn't have to worry about stuff like that. But YOU obviously didn't live in the East End (Homewood, Lincoln-Larimer, Garfield, East Hills, and some parts of East Lib) in the early 90's, then. I know, because I lived it, saw many people DIE from it, and saw many people go to jail for it, including relatives, under that RICO Act the Fed's were charging gang members with, back in the early 90's, after the death toll here, was getting out of control. That RICO Act gave gang members an automatic 10 years with no possibility of parole. The East End mirrored South Central LA/Compton back in the early 90's. It was NOT.A.JOKE....smart kids couldn't even attend Magnet Schools in different parts of the city because of the "sets" they came from. Back then, it was almost like you HAD to claim a 'set'. All the kids who excelled in sports, especially football, went to Perry. Back in the early 90's, it wasn't happenin'.

Gang activity, YES GANG ACTIVITY, isn't nearly as bad now as it was back in the early 90's. I'd downgrade it to neighborhood rivalries, now, which have ALWAYS existed in Pittsburgh. I can remember my uncles having to fight with other neighborhoods back in the mid-70's. Every NATIVE Pittsburgher, from the inner city, knows The Hill and North Side didn't get along. Homewood and Wilkinsburg, never got along, Garfield never got along with ANYONE, so on and so forth, and its STILL like that, although some neighborhood alliances have been made (but not very many). People, especially young BLACK males, still don't venture into other people's 'hoods' to have fun. They stay in their own. Unless its a neutral territory like the nightclubs down in the Strip District or to the "O" in Oakland to get something to eat after the clubs close at 2 a.m. and sometimes THAT isn't even safe if you come across a drunk knucklehead throwin' his set up (representing his neighborhood, with a gang sign, for those of you who don't know what the HELL I'm talkin' about).

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by Little Mizz Pittsburgh

You're right about the gangs of the 80's. I was a teenager in the 80's and we didn't have to worry about stuff like that. But YOU obviously didn't live in the East End (Homewood, Lincoln-Larimer, Garfield, East Hills, and some parts of East Lib) in the early 90's, then. I know, because I lived it, saw many people DIE from it, and saw many people go to jail for it, including relatives, under that RICO Act the Fed's were charging gang members with, back in the early 90's, after the death toll here, was getting out of control. That RICO Act gave gang members an automatic 10 years with no possibility of parole. The East End mirrored South Central LA/Compton back in the early 90's. It was NOT.A.JOKE....smart kids couldn't even attend Magnet Schools in different parts of the city because of the "sets" they came from. Back then, it was almost like you HAD to claim a 'set'. All the kids who excelled in sports, especially football, went to Perry. Back in the early 90's, it wasn't happenin'.

You're right. I wasn't anywhere near the city in the early 90s. My experience with those neighborhoods is the 80s and this decade. I missed the 90s entirely due to raising children. I was just too busy to go anywhere.

Originally Posted by Little Mizz Pittsburgh

Gang activity, YES GANG ACTIVITY, isn't nearly as bad now as it was back in the early 90's. I'd downgrade it to neighborhood rivalries, now, which have ALWAYS existed in Pittsburgh. I can remember my uncles having to fight with other neighborhoods back in the mid-70's. Every NATIVE Pittsburgher, from the inner city, knows The Hill and North Side didn't get along. Homewood and Wilkinsburg, never got along, Garfield never got along with ANYONE, so on and so forth, and its STILL like that, although some neighborhood alliances have been made (but not very many). People, especially young BLACK males, still don't venture into other people's 'hoods' to have fun. They stay in their own. Unless its a neutral territory like the nightclubs down in the Strip District or to the "O" in Oakland to get something to eat after the clubs close at 2 a.m. and sometimes THAT isn't even safe if you come across a drunk knucklehead throwin' his set up (representing his neighborhood, with a gang sign, for those of you who don't know what the HELL I'm talkin' about).

I'm glad you brought this up. When you say people from other areas don't venture into these areas, how does that apply to children from other areas entirely, specifically the suburbs, visiting friends in these areas? Or are all the ones in danger just the ones who are in the wrong place representing their neighborhoods with gang signs?

Throughout the years, I've been in many of these neighborhoods to visit friends. I've never had any problem, but I'm a woman. I know suburban kids are in danger when they just wander into these areas on their own, but visiting friends is different, right? Are my male teenagers in danger when they visit friends in these areas?

We haven't had any problems so far, but it does seem that they tend to stay close to home when one of my boys is visiting. They seem to wait until after I've picked him up before they leave to walk through the neighborhood to someone elses house. It's as if his friends are afraid to let him walk through the neighborhood. Everyone I know who lives in these areas say that my boys will be safe outside during daylight. I'm sure these boys are just being cautious, which I'm glad for because I did ask them to keep him safe. I'm just wondering if they are safe enough with the precautions being taken.

[Little Mizz Pittsburgh]

Originally Posted by Hopes

I'm glad you brought this up. When you say people from other areas don't venture into these areas, how does that apply to children from other areas entirely, specifically the suburbs, visiting friends in these areas? Or are all the ones in danger just the ones who are in the wrong place representing their neighborhoods with gang signs?

Throughout the years, I've been in many of these neighborhoods to visit friends. I've never had any problem, but I'm a woman. I know suburban kids are in danger when they just wander into these areas on their own, but visiting friends is different, right? Are my male teenagers in danger when they visit friends in these areas?

We haven't had any problems so far, but it does seem that they tend to stay close to home when one of my boys is visiting. They seem to wait until after I've picked him up before they leave to walk through the neighborhood to someone elses house. It's as if his friends are afraid to let him walk through the neighborhood. Everyone I know who lives in these areas say that my boys will be safe outside during daylight. I'm sure these boys are just being cautious, which I'm glad for because I did ask them to keep him safe. I'm just wondering if they are safe enough with the precautions being taken.

I can't speak on that, because I'm not a male and I'm not from surburbia. But, I think your son's friends would definitely be doing him a DISSERVICE if they paraded him through their neighborhood. And, they'd be doing a disservice to themselves, too. A young black male, walking through an inner city black neighborhood with a white boy? Antennas would definitely go up and I'd even go as far as saying that people from the neighborhood would think your son's friend was a SNITCH. I know someone (white guy) who works for FED EX and his territory is HOMEWOOD. He would get VERBALLY harrassed all the time because they thought he was working with the FED's. It took awhile for the verbal harrassment to stop. Once they saw that he was merely someone who was there to do his job, they quit. Its very unusual to see a white guy just hanging out deep inside some inner city neighborhood. So, be glad your son's friends are being cautious.

Yes, it is very different for females. Although, I still have to be careful. For instance, I can go have a drink by myself in Homewood, because I know A LOT of people and I know I'd feel comfortable. However, I won't go decide to have a drink by myself on The Hill. I know from experience that females from the Hill don't take too kindly to other females NOT from their neighborhood or unfamiliar faces, PERIOD. Its not like I CAN'T go on the Hill to have a drink, its just that I'd feel more comfortable going with a group or with someone I know from the Hill. If I were a young black male, he just wouldn't flat out go, period, because of the neighborhood he's from.

[SAI126]

Originally Posted by Hopes

My POINT is that Pittsburgh does have it's share of violence, but it's still nothing compared to what's happening in larger cities.

There...is...just...no...comparison.

This thread made me laugh, cry and bang my head against the wall. So much misinformation, the usual Pittsburgh sugarcoating, and a lot of bad grammar and spelling errors. Some from posters claiming a college education. You all would have done well to take serious Drover's admonitions. Dysiple23, ebonics and all mapped out the situation pretty well. The rest of the thread reminded me once again why Pittsburgh continues to go down the tubes (pun intended). I could give a fairly coherent history of gangs in Pittsburgh, but why bother? I do remember when it became apparent in the late 80s that this was going to be serious problem in the Pittsburgh area the cops were for the most part naive, misinformed and befuddled. By the time they got their heads out of the sand the problem had spread like wildfire. Gang warfare extracted the last ounces of viability out of Peabody, a once proud and great urban high school in the early 90s, causing a dedicated principal and educator to retire prematurely. Pittsburgh was mostly spared the gangs and the violent culture they spawned until the late 80s. Black servicemen from the Pittsburgh area at various times and in various branches of the service were befriended by gang members from different parts of the country. It appears that Los Angeles gang members had the most affect and influence on Pittsburgh servicemen who brought this plague back with them upon their discharge from active duty. The rest they say is history. The Feds did a good job of locking up key Pittsburgh gang members in the mid and late 90s, having their greatest impact on the LAW gang. Still, the problem never completely went away and appears now to be regaining strength. Pittsburgh has some of the most violent inner city neighborhoods in urban America, and I just can't for the life of me understand why so many of you want to pretend that it isn't so. The gangs here might not have the history or intricate structure of the gangs of LA and Chicago, but that is neither here nor there. People are being killed, some of them innocent of all gang activity, and they are just as dead as the ones who were killed by older and more established gangs in other cities. Pittsburgh's violence very much does compare with many other American cities, in fact it often exceeds it.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by Little Mizz Pittsburgh

I can't speak on that, because I'm not a male and I'm not from surburbia. But, I think your son's friends would definitely be doing him a DISSERVICE if they paraded him through their neighborhood. And, they'd be doing a disservice to themselves, too. A young black male, walking through an inner city black neighborhood with a white boy? Antennas would definitely go up and I'd even go as far as saying that people from the neighborhood would think your son's friend was a SNITCH. I know someone (white guy) who works for FED EX and his territory is HOMEWOOD. He would get VERBALLY harrassed all the time because they thought he was working with the FED's. It took awhile for the verbal harrassment to stop. Once they saw that he was merely someone who was there to do his job, they quit. Its very unusual to see a white guy just hanging out deep inside some inner city neighborhood. So, be glad your son's friends are being cautious.

Thank you.

Of course, I'm glad they are all being responsible. I was just sharing how I can see they are taking his safety into consideration. The snitch scenario certainly crossed my mind. That's an example of one reason I was cautious about allowing them to go.

I'm uneasy for their safety because they don't have street smarts AND I clearly don't know the inner city as well anymore. But I want to uphold my principles. I can't raise children telling them one thing and then doing another when faced with it. We ALL have to walk the talk.

I have to say that what you described is disappointing. I think it's downright twisted. CLEARLY, racial problems in our country won't be over until I can live in Manchester without being chased and my children can visit Homewood without being considered snitches.

[Hopes]

Originally Posted by SAI126

So much misinformation, the usual Pittsburgh sugarcoating, and a lot of bad grammar and spelling errors. Some from posters claiming a college education.

Stop insulting people. It hinders your message.