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Old 06-20-2018, 10:49 PM
 
12 posts, read 6,449 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gg View Post
I would agree with this unless Pittsburgh can take it over. Then it will become nice again. If it stays Wilkinsburg, it will never be nice. Taxes too high to fix up, so investors won't touch it.
What benefit would Pittsburgh gain from taking over Wilkinsburg? More taxes, I think not. It would cost them more in support then they would get back in taxes. Taxes are too high anyway.
As I said before it would be better to tear down the city of Wilkinsburg and start over.
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Old 06-20-2018, 10:56 PM
 
Location: Lawrenceville, Pittsburgh
2,109 posts, read 2,144,727 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dead dog View Post
What benefit would Pittsburgh gain from taking over Wilkinsburg? More taxes, I think not. It would cost them more in support then they would get back in taxes. Taxes are too high anyway.
As I said before it would be better to tear down the city of Wilkinsburg and start over.
Hypothetically, if the City of Pittsburgh believed that property values would increase if Wilkinsburg residents had access to Pittsburgh Public Schools, and the city administrators also believed it would cost the same or less per capita to provide other services, annexation of Wilkinsburg could benefit both the city and the current residents of Wilkinsburg, and Wilkinsburg tax rates might even decrease.
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Old 06-21-2018, 06:11 AM
 
6,357 posts, read 5,008,150 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dead dog View Post
White people will never move back to Wilkinsburg, ever....
Let me fix that for you:

"Middle class people will never move back to Wilkinsburg, ever".

Hard to believe in this world of generalizations, but there are black people who aren't economically poor, and they don't want Wilkinsburg either.
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Old 06-21-2018, 07:43 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
14,361 posts, read 16,879,345 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dead dog View Post
When did Regent Square become part of Wilkinsburg?
Regent Square has always been split between four municipalities:



There isn't a tremendous difference in terms of who lives in any of the four sections - it's all mostly white, educated, "professional class" folks. The Pittsburgh portion is the most desirable however, because property taxes are by far the lowest and the public school options are the best. This is true even though generally speaking the homes in the Pittsburgh section tend to be more modest bungalows. The grand old houses are mostly in Edgewood and Wilkinsburg.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dead dog View Post
White people will never move back to Wilkinsburg, ever. I lived in Wilkinsburg back in the late 40's and 50's.
Moved out in 1962. When I lived there it was 98%, white families. The when Pittsburgh started to tear down the hill district the blacks started to move in. Also, they (blacks) came from Homewood and Brushton. Taxes went up in the 60's and some of the white homeowners just walked away from their home. By the 70's there was a massive exodus from the city. In the 80's more blacks moved in many on welfare and housing assistance. Now today the city has about 90% of blacks living there. This is why whites will never move back to Wilkinsburg.
A lot of those houses that the whites walk away from in the 60's are still there vacant. The city is trying to sell (give away) to whites to rebuild them. The best (IMHO) is to tear down the city and rebuild it.
This was a beautiful city when I lived there. As the saying goes: " You can never go home again".
Well, I'm coming back to the Burgh this summer and will stop by to see the city I grew up in.
It's a little out of date, but here's a neighborhood map of Wilkinsburg from 2009:



Since that time, Kelley West and Hamnett Place have both improved I think. Peebles Square is the only "sketchy" neighborhood left west of the busway, and it's not even all that bad any longer. The more suburban portions of Wilkinsburg to the east of the really bad neighborhoods continue to slowly go downhill however.

Wilkinsburg is still around 30% or so white, and it has been stable at that level for awhile. Overall white flight slowed down a lot because even though the black neighborhoods collapsed in population, neighborhoods which never "turned over" like Regent Square and Whitney Park have zero abandonment and are still full. I mean, this is part of Wilkinsburg.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhoIsStanwix? View Post
Hypothetically, if the City of Pittsburgh believed that property values would increase if Wilkinsburg residents had access to Pittsburgh Public Schools, and the city administrators also believed it would cost the same or less per capita to provide other services, annexation of Wilkinsburg could benefit both the city and the current residents of Wilkinsburg, and Wilkinsburg tax rates might even decrease.
Remember that Pittsburgh and PPS are two different governmental agencies which set their own tax rates. PPS already includes Mt. Oliver. The real tax savings would be Wilkinsburg joining PPS part and parcel, not the city, because PPS has taxes which are heavier on the income side, but lighter on the property side.

Wilkinsburg going into PPS would lead to an immediate, significantly large, tax cut. Wilkinsburg is 32.62 mills, Pittsburgh 9.84. Thus school property taxes would be cut immediately by 70%. Yes, people would pay higher income taxes. However, retirees, landlords, and businesses woudn't pay the income tax. The last is key, because this would make running a store in Wilkinsburg much more affordable.

Once school property taxes are cut so dramatically, it means people will be more willing to buy property in Wilkinsburg, which will raise property values. It also means that existing property owners won't be as scared to improve their property, for fear of their taxes spiking. It could be enough to trigger gentrification of Wilkinsburg as a whole. I think it's more likely, however, it just results in the nicer portions of the borough west of the Busway to become de-facto annexed by the East End, with property values ultimately more similar to Shadyside - or at least Highland Park.
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Old 06-21-2018, 07:51 AM
 
2,519 posts, read 2,073,289 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by szug-bot View Post
Let me fix that for you:

"Middle class people will never move back to Wilkinsburg, ever".

Hard to believe in this world of generalizations, but there are black people who aren't economically poor, and they don't want Wilkinsburg either.
I bet nobody thought middle class people would ever move back to Garfield or East Liberty, Manchester or other areas that just a decade before were "depressed" but it's happening in cities all over the country.
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Old 06-21-2018, 07:58 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
14,361 posts, read 16,879,345 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norcider View Post
I bet nobody thought middle class people would ever move back to Garfield or East Liberty, Manchester or other areas that just a decade before were "depressed" but it's happening in cities all over the country.
Again, it's silly to treat Wilkinsburg as if it's a single neighborhood. Aside from the sky-high taxes and terrible public schools, there's nothing the entire borough has in common. It ranges from 80%+ white upper middle class areas to 80%+ black bombed out areas, to racially mixed safe suburban neighborhoods like Blackridge.
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Old 06-21-2018, 08:07 AM
 
2,519 posts, read 2,073,289 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
Again, it's silly to treat Wilkinsburg as if it's a single neighborhood. Aside from the sky-high taxes and terrible public schools, there's nothing the entire borough has in common. It ranges from 80%+ white upper middle class areas to 80%+ black bombed out areas, to racially mixed safe suburban neighborhoods like Blackridge.
I am not, and I am somebody on here who actually lived there and used the business district. If Wilkinsburg proper, closest to the business district, were to revive it would be another Lawrenceville. Tons of housing, flat topography, access to the high speed bus and parkway would be ideal.
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Old 06-21-2018, 09:22 AM
 
3,589 posts, read 3,352,296 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norcider View Post
I bet nobody thought middle class people would ever move back to Garfield or East Liberty, Manchester or other areas that just a decade before were "depressed" but it's happening in cities all over the country.
Don't forget about lawrenceville the crappiest, drug infested, hooker ladened, nastiest crime infested neighborhood in Pittsburgh 15 years ago.
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Old 06-21-2018, 09:29 AM
 
2,519 posts, read 2,073,289 times
Reputation: 2278
Quote:
Originally Posted by guy2073 View Post
Don't forget about lawrenceville the crappiest, drug infested, hooker ladened, nastiest crime infested neighborhood in Pittsburgh 15 years ago.
Exactly, and the South Side in the late 80's was terrible as well. Recent transplants don't have the historical knowledge of how these places transformed.
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Old 06-21-2018, 04:16 PM
gg
 
Location: Pittsburgh
26,137 posts, read 25,783,846 times
Reputation: 17378
Quote:
Originally Posted by dead dog View Post
What benefit would Pittsburgh gain from taking over Wilkinsburg? More taxes, I think not. It would cost them more in support then they would get back in taxes. Taxes are too high anyway.
As I said before it would be better to tear down the city of Wilkinsburg and start over.
It would be a HUGE benefit to Pittsburgh. Wilkinsburg would turn around fast as the taxes would be more normal for our region. The downtown would start renovating and more. It is on the busway and is right next to the East End and walking distance to Regent Square. As people fix those homes taxes would roll in like crazy which is money for the city.

It is a true win-win, but people in our region hate change as it is mostly democratic which just don't like to progress when it comes to real estate.

I can't agree with what you said at all. Wilkinsburg has massive potential if it was in the city limits. It would go crazy fast.
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