Foodie in Pittsburgh (Lebanon, Bridgeville, Aspinwall: how much, house, school districts)

[johnnytang24]

Originally Posted by Nathaniel_G

Do you know why we can't get those things? Because people come here and realize that our standards are low - especially our gastronomic standards. Yes, it's getting better - there's been something of a food renaissance here in the past few years, but there's still a much lower standard than exists in most places. We have a lot of work to do to match even Kansas City in demanding better.

Quantity over quality, menus that never change, extreme snobbishness (especially Mount Washington restaurants), I can't wait to see some change. Some of the new restaurants are OK: Nine on Nine, Sonoma Grille, etc. Now for the restaurants that are a class above those....

Chez Girard, Hopwood, PA - not polished, and the servers don't really understand the food and the concept of fine dining, but the chef/owner is French and classically trained and does a creditable job. It's not the greatest meal you'll ever have, but it's a fun trip and a pleasant experience.

Funny, I had the exact same experience.

[pghcleak]

Originally Posted by Nathaniel_G

Hah! You mean Pittsburgh in addition to NYC; DC; St. Helena, CA; Charlotte, NC; and (strangely, though it's become some sort of food mecca for some reason) Kansas City!? Not bloody likely. We can't get Zagat to do a dining guide - they just opened a location on their site. We can't get Crate & Barrel here. We can't get the Ritz-Carlton to build a hotel or Bloomingdales to open a store (both have bailed multiple times over the past few decades).

Do you know why we can't get those things? Because people come here and realize that our standards are low - especially our gastronomic standards. Yes, it's getting better - there's been something of a food renaissance here in the past few years, but there's still a much lower standard than exists in most places. We have a lot of work to do to match even Kansas City in demanding better.

-Nathaniel

I was actually surprised about Charlotte and Kansas City. I kept thinking "really?" when I saw they had locations there. Not that they aren't okay cities but when you think of a place like Dean and DeLuca mostly being in NYC and DC, you would think they'd be in places like Chicago, LA, and some other Cali, Texas, and Florida cities. Not the case, apparently.

I actually have heard different as to why we can't these things here. I heard that a lot of these places have been expressing interest in Pittsburgh for decades but can never find a suitable location to reach the metro (with no beltway). A couple articles (don't remember where) said that Pittsburghers stay in their respective regions for shopping and dining and tend not to cross bridges and tunnels to get to other areas which is why all of our malls are practically identical.

As for Crate & Barrel...I've been hearing Ross Park but nothing official has been announced. Let's hope it's for real.

Ritz-Carlton...just a thread on here a few days ago said they had interest in building on Mt. Washington but the residents shut it down because they didn't want a traffic increase.

Bloomingdale's...well we're just getting a Nordstrom decades later. Let's not push our luck haha

Hey, we did get IKEA before a lot of people. Still, people drive from quite some distances to come to our Ikea although they are starting to open more so that will probably end soon.

[stasia]

Originally Posted by john7104

Atria's, Fiori's Pizza, Mallorca, Fat Heads, Uncle Sam's

I don't consider myself a foodie, per se, nor do I consider these high end dining experiences, but Fiori's and Fatheads are two of my favorite places. Fiori's for the pizza, Fatheads for the burgers and beer.

[Nathaniel_G]

Originally Posted by johnnytang24

Now for the restaurants that are a class above those....

Try Mio in Aspinwall - great new addition. I'm told that Iovino's and Bistro 19 in Mt. Lebanon are good, but haven't been to either yet - a little out of the way. You?

In terms of those that are a cut above, it's going to take a while. We need to demand better. And we need to start with the ordinary everyday dining experience - we need to tell the cooks and proprietors at the places we eat our lunches that they need to do better - more attention to preparation, better ingredients, a little bit of imagination, nicer presentations. We let them get away with murder - tasteless soups, greasy sandwiches, wilted salads. No more I say! Send it back! Demand better! If we do this, our standards will improve, our restaurants will improve or disappear when they do not.

In the greater culinary world this city is best known for two things: "Pittsburgh rare" and sandwiches and salads with french fries in them! I'm told that chefs elsewhere will refuse an order for steak charred on the outside and rare inside. As to the fries on the sandwiches and in the salads, invariably these are greasy, soggy messes that add nothing but raw cholesterol and carbs to the experience. How did Primanti's get a James Beard Award anyway!? JBF needs to rethink this "American Classic" award idea in its entirety - unless it is consciously building a list of places to avoid when visiting other cities.

Okay, better get off my high horse before it bolts!

Chez Girard...
Funny, I had the exact same experience.

Aha - a kindred spirit. Thought so. If it wasn't so pleasant, it wouldn't be worth it - all things considered, it's just rather charming.

I ended up in this thread when I was searching for the name of Mendoza Express, who's location I could remember but not its name. It's a crummy little joint in Greentree which offers the only decent real Mexican food in the region. (I mean Mexican, folks - not border garbage or some variation thereof). But "city-data.com" does not appear to be the best place to discuss these things. I'm not sure there is a place specific to Pittsburgh. Perhaps, being a web developer, I should create one. Comments?

-Nathaniel

[Nathaniel_G]

Originally Posted by pghcleak

Dean and DeLuca mostly being in NYC and DC, you would think they'd be in places like Chicago, LA, and some other Cali, Texas, and Florida cities. Not the case, apparently.

They have presences (either cafes or stores or both) in several cities in Japan, in Taipei, and in Dubai. These are all pretty new, to my knowledge, as are many of their US stores outside NYC. Their expansion is recent and their strategy seems a little random. But they're successful, so I'm not going to second-guess them.

I actually have heard different as to why we can't these things here. I heard that a lot of these places have been expressing interest in Pittsburgh for decades but can never find a suitable location to reach the metro (with no beltway). A couple articles (don't remember where) said that Pittsburghers stay in their respective regions for shopping and dining and tend not to cross bridges and tunnels to get to other areas which is why all of our malls are practically identical.

All true. But Pittsburghers stay in their own neighborhoods not so much because of transportation, but because they don't know any better. We are a provincial city. We ask for little and get less from the wide world. We're happy with our chain stores and franchised restaurants. There's a Wal-Mart and a Wendy's near you - why go anywhere else?

I'm not really jonesing for D&D, Crate and Barrel, Bloomies and the Ritz. What I'd like to see are more independent merchants here, offering more variety, more options, more interest. That certainly isn't going to happen until the economy improves, but it's also not going to happen on any grand scale in Pittsburgh unless there is a demand. We don't demand. We like Wendy's and Wal-Mart.

-Nathaniel

[pghcleak]

Originally Posted by Nathaniel_G

I'm not really jonesing for D&D, Crate and Barrel, Bloomies and the Ritz. What I'd like to see are more independent merchants here, offering more variety, more options, more interest. That certainly isn't going to happen until the economy improves, but it's also not going to happen on any grand scale in Pittsburgh unless there is a demand. We don't demand. We like Wendy's and Wal-Mart.

-Nathaniel

See, I personally would like to see some more better chains around here (stores and restaurants). Everywhere you go is basically run by Darden (Olive Garden, Red Lobster, etc.) I'd like to see California Pizza Kitchen, Maggiano's, Macaroni Grill, and some other chains we don't have here unless we drive to Cleveland. I, too, would like to also see the independent places as well.

Do you have any idea what goes on at the Culinary Institute? Do those students all leave for other cities or where do they get jobs and what kind of restaurants? Just a question I've always wondered.

[Tallysmom]

Originally Posted by Nathaniel_G

In the greater culinary world this city is best known for two things: "Pittsburgh rare" and sandwiches and salads with french fries in them! I'm told that chefs elsewhere will refuse an order for steak charred on the outside and rare inside. As to the fries on the sandwiches and in the salads, invariably these are greasy, soggy messes that add nothing but raw cholesterol and carbs to the experience. How did Primanti's get a James Beard Award anyway!? JBF needs to rethink this "American Classic" award idea in its entirety - unless it is consciously building a list of places to avoid when visiting other cities.

My husband and I grew up in areas near Pittsburgh -- me, Cranberry and Brent in Beaver -- and until we started watching food shows and Pittsburgh stuff did we EVER hear of Primanti's. And Brent's family is very blue collar sandwich and beer people, and would travel for a good sandwich... my mother in law used to go to Marietta Ohio for her tomatoes a few times a year, so it wasn't out of the realm to travel to Pittsburgh.

Same for my family -- my parents loved to eat out at all sorts of places.

So, this whole Primanti's thing -- I'm not saying it's not good, I'm just saying it's more a newer local phenomena...

[BrianTH]

Just an aside, but there have been quite a few new restaurants opening up in the East End recently (in fact, just last night we went to the first birthday dinner for Legume, our local French/Italian bistro). So, I can't speak for the entire region, but this area seems to be supporting much more than Wendy's.

[Nathaniel_G]

Originally Posted by pghcleak

See, I personally would like to see some more better chains around here (stores and restaurants). Everywhere you go is basically run by Darden (Olive Garden, Red Lobster, etc.) I'd like to see California Pizza Kitchen, Maggiano's, Macaroni Grill, and some other chains we don't have here unless we drive to Cleveland. I, too, would like to also see the independent places as well.

We have enough chains, and more arriving every day, it seems. Chains are not going to help Pittsburgh learn what the world has to offer. Chains all offer more of the same. There's no creativity, no independent thought, nothing regional or seasonal about them. Chains make people lust for sameness, not variety. Chains convince people that similarity is safe and creativity is dangerous. Chains are a lot of what is wrong with this nation.

Do you have any idea what goes on at the Culinary Institute? Do those students all leave for other cities or where do they get jobs and what kind of restaurants? Just a question I've always wondered.

Pittsburgh actually has several cooking schools. You likely mean the PA Culinary Institute, with its so-called "Cordon Bleu" program. Here's what goes on there, as well at the other area schools: They train people to work in the chains. It's the rare PCI grad who has the vision, exposure and talent to be a really fine chef. True of other schools as well. There are a bunch of "Cordon Bleu" programs in the US - what it amounts to is the Cordon Bleu sold out - it licensed the use of its name and logo for big bucks - making it nothing more than another chain.

PCI and its ilk are nothing more than vocational schools for line cooks - akin to the Beauty Academy and the Business Institute. Never confuse them with the few great cooking schools in the US.

-Nathaniel

[Nathaniel_G]

So, this whole Primanti's thing -- I'm not saying it's not good, I'm just saying it's more a newer local phenomena...

True that the expansion of Primanti's is a recent development, but it was already a cult favorite in the early eighties when I first heard of it, not long after arriving in Pittsburgh. There was only the Strip District location then, and it was (and remains) the favorite after-hours eatery for bar-goers. That was the appeal that really launched it, it seems. It has nothing to do with warehouse work or a blue-collar city, though that may have been its origin. Had they closed the kitchen by 2am, I don't think it would ever have taken off the way it has.

Nevertheless, the potato-laden-soggy-sandwich-and-salad phenomenon has proven pervasive. A steak or chicken salad with fries on it, everywhere its served, is a "Pittsburgh Salad," it seems. I've seen it in numerous places in the country, including California and New York. (Primanti's does not claim to have invented the "Pittsburgh Salad" - there are a few other area eateries laying claim to that dubious distinction, but I strongly suspect a link between fries on sandwiches and fries on salads!).

-Nathaniel