Market Square removing public seating outside of lunch hours (Liberty: neighborhood, buying)

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by WhoIsStanwix?

The top reason the "higher end eateries" aren't seeing as many patrons as they would like to, if that is even a concern at all, is because the establishments in Market Square, for the most part, don't offer the interior atmosphere or the menu that other establishments in close proximity offer. In other words, if the Market Square restaurants are looking for reasons why they aren't as busy as they'd like to be, they should consider offering a more attractive product.

Yeah, Market Square is really mostly fast food/fast causal type places like Chipotle or middlebrow food like Diamond Market Grill. Nola is the only one I've been in I'd say is semi-upscale. I hear Poros is upscale too, but I haven't been.

[Paul2421]

Originally Posted by eschaton

Yeah, Market Square is really mostly fast food/fast causal type places like Chipotle or middlebrow food like Diamond Market Grill. Nola is the only one I've been in I'd say is semi-upscale. I hear Poros is upscale too, but I haven't been.

the yard, il pizzaolo, revel and roost, perle, poros, sienna, wingharts, franktuary, poros, ruths chris, and the new city works are more upscale. i'm not saying that the business owners are right but that is most likely who is complaining.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Paul2421

the yard, il pizzaolo, revel and roost, perle, poros, sienna, wingharts, franktuary, poros, ruths chris, and the new city works are more upscale. i'm not saying that the business owners are right but that is most likely who is complaining.

I like Franktuary - I eat there at least once a month. But it's hardly upscale just because it sells hipster hotdogs and serves craft beer. They don't even have full table service at their Market Square location. Ruth's Chris Steakhouse is not in Market Square, or even that nearby, since it's across PPG Plaza. I'll give you the rest. Still, there's at least twice as many places which are either outright fast food or which cater heavily to the lunchtime crowd and/or people who don't care what they eat as long as it comes with a beer.

[Paul2421]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I like Franktuary - I eat there at least once a month. But it's hardly upscale just because it sells hipster hotdogs and serves craft beer. They don't even have full table service at their Market Square location. Ruth's Chris Steakhouse is not in Market Square, or even that nearby, since it's across PPG Plaza. I'll give you the rest. Still, there's at least twice as many places which are either outright fast food or which cater heavily to the lunchtime crowd and/or people who don't care what they eat as long as it comes with a beer.

oh i agree for sure. my point is that the market for these restaurants isn't those people that are hanging out in the square all day.

[PreservationPioneer]

Originally Posted by Paul2421

this is directly related to the square's attractiveness to potential patrons of business surrounding it. anyone that has been around the area during warm weather has seen that people loiter around the area and likely don't spend money at the higher end eateries. the businesses do no think that this is a positive for their own business. having police patrol the area is not likely what the businesses want as this will not bring in their customers. have your own opinion on what should be done.

Who cares about the businesses on the square? If they don't like the square, then they can move. I'm sure other businesses would love to be there. Market Square has been a Pittsburgh landmark and public space since the origin of the city itself. Businesses come and go, and should not be able to dictate that only customers of their businesses can enjoy this public space!

[szug-bot]

Originally Posted by PreservationPioneer

Who cares about the businesses on the square? If they don't like the square, then they can move. I'm sure other businesses would love to be there. Market Square has been a Pittsburgh landmark and public space since the origin of the city itself. Businesses come and go, and should not be able to dictate that only customers of their businesses can enjoy this public space!

That may be, Pres, but I don't want to see a tattoo shop, a vape shop, or faux surf culture store in there. Despite some of its casual fare, Market Square does have class, and variety. And again, imagine if you sort of knew Pittsburgh, but not entirely. You discover MS. It IS a beautiful, memorable place (hopefully not for being offered a gram or two).

The attitude of showing griping businesses to the door? Ouch, not a good approach to preserving the appeal of that public space.

[tyovan4]

Originally Posted by PreservationPioneer

Who cares about the businesses on the square? If they don't like the square, then they can move. I'm sure other businesses would love to be there. Market Square has been a Pittsburgh landmark and public space since the origin of the city itself. Businesses come and go, and should not be able to dictate that only customers of their businesses can enjoy this public space!

I don't think they're advocating that only their customers can use the space. Some of ya'll actually need to go down there and see what it's like. People aren't saying "OMG, blacks came down from the Hill! Close up shop, this place is going downhill". People are saying that its becoming an uncomfortable area for regular folks. If people were sitting around playing chess all day, that would be one thing. But they're not.

Instead it's become an extension of Smithfield Street or the Wood Street T Station. It's become a loitering spot for the homeless, the mentally ill, and the addicted. It's going back to the way it was before the renovation - a place that normal people avoid.

The businesses are invested. Their owners are invested. They're providing jobs, tax revenues, and a draw to bring people downtown to support other businesses. But to Heck with them, you're right - let's pander to the crackheads instead.

[Paul2421]

Originally Posted by tyovan4

I don't think they're advocating that only their customers can use the space. Some of ya'll actually need to go down there and see what it's like. People aren't saying "OMG, blacks came down from the Hill! Close up shop, this place is going downhill". People are saying that its becoming an uncomfortable area for regular folks. If people were sitting around playing chess all day, that would be one thing. But they're not.

Instead it's become an extension of Smithfield Street or the Wood Street T Station. It's become a loitering spot for the homeless, the mentally ill, and the addicted. It's going back to the way it was before the renovation - a place that normal people avoid.

The businesses are invested. Their owners are invested. They're providing jobs, tax revenues, and a draw to bring people downtown to support other businesses. But to Heck with them, you're right - let's pander to the crackheads instead.

It is apparent that some people have not experienced this issue firsthand.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by tyovan4

I don't think they're advocating that only their customers can use the space. Some of ya'll actually need to go down there and see what it's like. People aren't saying "OMG, blacks came down from the Hill! Close up shop, this place is going downhill". People are saying that its becoming an uncomfortable area for regular folks. If people were sitting around playing chess all day, that would be one thing. But they're not.

Instead it's become an extension of Smithfield Street or the Wood Street T Station. It's become a loitering spot for the homeless, the mentally ill, and the addicted. It's going back to the way it was before the renovation - a place that normal people avoid.

The businesses are invested. Their owners are invested. They're providing jobs, tax revenues, and a draw to bring people downtown to support other businesses. But to Heck with them, you're right - let's pander to the crackheads instead.

I work in Gateway Center, and walk to (or often through) Market Square a lot. I know exactly the kind of people who loiter there. But if you aren't comfortable with those kind of people being around, you aren't comfortable with being in a city period. It's not like you don't see them in South Side, Lawrenceville, or East Liberty.

Of course, a lot of tourists, or commuters, aren't completely okay with being in a city. That said I'm not sure that any city has "sanitized" itself enough to avoid offending the sensitivities of the most urban-phobic, who would really be more comfortable hanging out in a lifestyle center somewhere.

[tyovan4]

Originally Posted by eschaton

I work in Gateway Center, and walk to (or often through) Market Square a lot. I know exactly the kind of people who loiter there. But if you aren't comfortable with those kind of people being around, you aren't comfortable with being in a city period. It's not like you don't see them in South Side, Lawrenceville, or East Liberty.

Of course, a lot of tourists, or commuters, aren't completely okay with being in a city. That said I'm not sure that any city has "sanitized" itself enough to avoid offending the sensitivities of the most urban-phobic, who would really be more comfortable hanging out in a lifestyle center somewhere.

I work downtown as well, and I'm through Market Square nearly daily as I enjoy walking around the Point on my lunch break.

This isn't about being uncomfortable in an urban environment. I walk through the Hill everyday too, as I park my car on Dinwiddie.

And of course you'll see someone mentally ill, or under the influence, or addicted in other city neighborhoods. You'll see them here and there, it's an accepted fact.

What has become unacceptable is that Market Square has become an area where there is a large concentration of the above folks. I don't have a problem walking through there. But is it an area where I'd lounge in a chair and enjoy a lunch I bought from one of the local merchants? No. Not anymore. I don't enjoy being around folks that are in an altered state of mind (and can't keep it to themselves) while they behave in a loud, uncouth, annoying manner; while hassling me for change.

I don't know why the cops don't get out of their car and walk around. I don't know if its laziness, or if they're politically shackled by the Potatohead Administration from being more pro-active with their enforcement.

This isn't just a problem that should be brushed off by saying "Well, it's an urban area". Market Square should be one of the crown jewels of downtown, and it should be kept as a desirable area for people to congregate. If retirees want to come down and play chess all day - great. No problem there, would actually make the place feel lively and cultured.

Instead it's becoming a drug market and a focal point for socially undesirable people to congregate for extended periods of time. It needs to be kept safe and appealing.