bi-racial family wants to live in Pittsburgh (York, Bethel Park: lower-class, house)

[MountainLovin' Mom]

Thanks zip95!

I need to focus on more important issues at hand... like being able to afford the property taxes??

[Dorian]

Originally Posted by MountainLovin' Mom

My husband works for Immigration. We currently live in San Diego and I have been begging him to move us out of here for years. He is black... I'm white... we have 2 great boys, 13 and 11. We live in a predominately white upper middle class community, and my kids have lots of nice friends here.

Now job opportunities are opening up all over the country for my husband (I'm a teacher). I have spent hours researching different cities in various parts of the country, and I have found Pittsburgh to be at the top of the list. It appears this city just might be the BEST place for us to make our home. We are looking for GREAT schools, reasonable cost of living (the mortgage here is killing us...), lots of sports and a decent climate.

Could someone please recommend a neighborhood that might be a good fit? I've looked at property on realtor.com, but I'm not sure which areas to look at, stay away from, etc.

I have a high school friend who lives in Glenshaw (we grew up in Texas). It would be nice to live near her if that will work. BTW, we'd like a large lot... maybe even 2-5 acres if possible. We have 4 dogs and love to be outside.

So... what do you all think?? Could Pittsburgh be right for us??

THANKS in advance for your time!

Nice areas near your friend would be Fox Chapel, Aspinwall, Blawnox, Oakmont, And Springdale(this one has some racial issues.). Like MissShona said earlier you are not going to have much contact with many black people. Though pittsburgh doesn't have as many racial issues as other major cities it is there. The higher up you go in neighborhood class, the more issues there are. With your huband being a black male you should choose your neighborhood wisely especially when it comes to the police. I am a black male and I've lived in south park(an upper middle class community south of the city) since april 2007 and I haven't had a car since september, between me and my girlfriend we had been pulled over in Bethel park(a upper middle class neighborhood right next to south park that I go through to get to town) five times in less than six months. It's not just us either other people in our apartment complex said the same thing, they said south park police are bad too, I haven't had that problem yet. One of my neighbors is a white woman who has a black boyfriend and she said she drove their car everday to the trolley station with bad inspection stickers pass the police and never got pulled over but her boyfriend drove across the street and got pulled over as he parked in the parking space in our parking lot, and got a ticket. I've had two of my friends get pulled over after visiting me, both were black.

[Dorian]

I would highly recommend checking out Columbus, Ohio. It is a similar sized city(larger city, smaller metropolitan area.) it also has low real estate prices like pittsburgh, has good schools, a fastly growing job market(unlike pittsburgh) and probably the lowest racial issues in the whole area and is a very mixed area.

[Dorian]

Originally Posted by MountainLovin' Mom

I just heard about a former co-worker who had moved from San Diego to Tucson and has moved back to SD. She is white, husband is mexican. The people in AZ were not very nice to them. This is happening a lot. One family moved to FL, one to TX, and now they're back in SD. The family that moved to Dallas is an all-white family, so it wasn't a race issue. I guess the people were just not nice.

I have been wanting to move out of CA for the last 20 years (I'm originally from Texas... came here in the military.). It's too dry and I'd like to experience all 4 seasons. The public schools are over-crowded. Most of all, of course, it's expensive. I would like to give my two boys the opportunity to attend high-achieving high schools to prepare them for college.

As I stated in the original post... we're a black/white mixed family. Will my kids make friends there like they have here? We have only lived here as a family. I am told that people in CA are different from people in the rest of the country... more accepting, easy-going. There has to be other places in this country where the people are kind. I just find it hard to believe that this is the only decent place to live!

I am the one wanting to move. My husband and kids would be fine staying here. If we move and find that we aren't welcomed and my kids hate it... well... it will be all my fault. If we stay here... we continue paying $2500 monthly mortgage payments as well as $750 monthly property tax payments plus insurance, etc.... Gas is $4 a gallon. We have no financial freedom... The high school my kids would attend here is rated 7 out of 10, with classes averaging 25 students. Is this the best there is??

If I had just married a white guy there would be no issue... it would be a no-brainer. Why does it have to matter?? Dang it!

Your children will not have a hard time finding friends. The kids and younger adults tend to not be as racist. It's the older pittsburghers where the problems are. Pittsburgh is very subtle with its racism. It is not right in your face like in some areas but its there. On the good side it is very cheap to live here and it is a very beautiful city and since you like all four seasons(I do too!!!) you would love the weather it is cold and snowy in the winter, spring is nice to see everything start to grow and the kids get excited that the warmth is back and the can go to the playground, summers are hot and humid with occasional stormy nights that supply cool breezes to blow through the windows and dew covered grass in the morning, and fall is extremely beautiful here with the tree lined hills with a mix of yellows oranges and reds. I've always been one of those people who wouldn't like to have the same weather year round.

[MissShona]

Originally Posted by zip95

I have no idea what this discussion is about anymore.....really, I'm completely baffled.

Umm...because I disagree with your statement that follows; completely

I started with the point that those in the highest social stratum tend to be more educated and hence have more sophisticated world views. This, in turn, means that blatantly racist attitudes tend to decrease.

If you can demonstrate this somehow, some way -- I would be more than impressed (no, "impressed" wouldn't be the word). On the other hand, do a quick survey of minorities in America and ask them if they feel less subject to racial discrimination in the company of the well-to-do and educated and see what the response is.

Next, I explained that being black with a Mckeesport accent and social skills is different than being black with a Sewickley accent and social skills. Much like being white from Oil City is different than being white from Fox Chapel.

What in the world is a "McKeesport" accent? I was born in McKeesport and somehow no one can pick that up by how I talk (same with all 30 of my family members who currently live in McKeesport). Anyway...I digress.

I then said that in the middle-to-lower economic classes racial attitudes tend to reflect the local diversity. In other words, more diversity usually means more tolerance.

I've seen otherwise; but that's mainly the fault of the American media. There are some countries who have very little diversity ethnically, yet manage to be more tolerant (I'm specifically thinking of Finland -- a good Black Jamaican friend of mine has been there for 2 years...raves about it).

Finally, I explained that racist acts that actually hurt financial advancement matter MUCH MUCH more than racist acts that simply hurt ones feelings.

I hope I have refocused this discussion. A good way to continue would be for you to explain exactly which points of mine you dispute.

Oh boy; here's a link for ya - Why Whites Think Blacks Have No Problems | AlterNet . It's long though. It's an amazing read. However you would probably disagree.

It's so amazing how people can be so expert on things they haven't experienced. I have never been a Muslim and despite being a very strong Zionist, I don't for a second pretend to "explain away" the whys and hows of Jewish/Muslim discord (since my own Jewish perspective adds obvious bias). I am definitely not saying that only Black or Bi-racial or minority people can understand truly racism. But non-minorities cannot truly assess the effects/damages of racism because they have not experienced it first hand (think of a dermatologist and a burn victim -- he can study the effects of burns on the skin his entire life -- but until he has a third degree burn himself...does he truly know the thresholds of pain and the dimensions of living with the burn? Does he 'insult' the burn victim by trivializing the personal experiences of the burn victim?). Well I guess non-minorities could do what that guy in Soul Man did and turn themselves Black or something. But who wants to do that? (It's not that crucial really)

[Dorian]

Originally Posted by MissShona

Umm...because I disagree with your statement that follows; completely

If you can demonstrate this somehow, some way -- I would be more than impressed (no, "impressed" wouldn't be the word). On the other hand, do a quick survey of minorities in America and ask them if they feel less subject to racial discrimination in the company of the well-to-do and educated and see what the response is.

What in the world is a "McKeesport" accent? I was born in McKeesport and somehow no one can pick that up by how I talk (same with all 30 of my family members who currently live in McKeesport). Anyway...I digress.

I've seen otherwise; but that's mainly the fault of the American media. There are some countries who have very little diversity ethnically, yet manage to be more tolerant (I'm specifically thinking of Finland -- a good Black Jamaican friend of mine has been there for 2 years...raves about it).

Oh boy; here's a link for ya - Why Whites Think Blacks Have No Problems | AlterNet . It's long though. It's an amazing read. However you would probably disagree.

It's so amazing how people can be so expert on things they haven't experienced. I have never been a Muslim and despite being a very strong Zionist, I don't for a second pretend to "explain away" the whys and hows of Jewish/Muslim discord (since my own Jewish perspective adds obvious bias). I am definitely not saying that only Black or Bi-racial or minority people can understand truly racism. But non-minorities cannot truly assess the effects/damages of racism because they have not experienced it first hand (think of a dermatologist and a burn victim -- he can study the effects of burns on the skin his entire life -- but until he has a third degree burn himself...does he truly know the thresholds of pain and the dimensions of living with the burn? Does he 'insult' the burn victim by trivializing the personal experiences of the burn victim?). Well I guess non-minorities could do what that guy in Soul Man did and turn themselves Black or something. But who wants to do that? (It's not that crucial really)

I've come to conclusion that you can't explain racism to the majority unless someone close to them is a miniority. Although all races have some racism and stereotypes toward the other races, it is always not as bad for the majority(for obvious reasons). They don't understand how it would feel if they were out numbered in every city in america, how another race holds almost all the keys to oppurtunites and alot of them judge you for just being different and people that you are more qualified than get a job over you not because they are better at it, more educated, or even have a better resume, just because your genes make you appear darker. They think they know but they have no idea. There are alot of white people that are very nice and don't see blacks as that much different, but enough of the racist or slightly racist types are enough to keep the black community in pittsburgh from making any progress as a whole because satistics show that a good bit are employers. As for "McKeesport accent" I never heard of that before either. If you put a group of people in front of me and had me listen to all of them talk I would never pick out the person from mckeesport from other pittsburghers.

[zip95]

Originally Posted by Dorian

Nice areas near your friend would be Fox Chapel, Aspinwall, Blawnox, Oakmont, And Springdale(this one has some racial issues.). Like MissShona said earlier you are not going to have much contact with many black people.

These (like many) North Hills communities have diversity in the retail centers. Think Waterworks Mall in Fox Chapel.

Originally Posted by Dorian

Though pittsburgh doesn't have as many racial issues as other major cities it is there. The higher up you go in neighborhood class, the more issues there are. With your huband being a black male you should choose your neighborhood wisely especially when it comes to the police. I am a black male and I've lived in south park(an upper middle class community south of the city) since april 2007 and I haven't had a car since september, between me and my girlfriend we had been pulled over in Bethel park(a upper middle class neighborhood right next to south park that I go through to get to town) five times in less than six months. It's not just us either other people in our apartment complex said the same thing, they said south park police are bad too, I haven't had that problem yet. One of my neighbors is a white woman who has a black boyfriend and she said she drove their car everday to the trolley station with bad inspection stickers pass the police and never got pulled over but her boyfriend drove across the street and got pulled over as he parked in the parking space in our parking lot, and got a ticket. I've had two of my friends get pulled over after visiting me, both were black.

I wouldn't call any South Hills area upper-middle class except perhaps Upper St. Clair. Anyway, I don't doubt your story. The South Hills have almost zero diversity (even in retail areas) and a horrible history of discrimination. If I was the Original Poster, that would be the last place I would look.

[Pitman]

Originally Posted by Dorian

Nice areas near your friend would be Fox Chapel, Aspinwall, Blawnox, Oakmont, And Springdale(this one has some racial issues.). Like MissShona said earlier you are not going to have much contact with many black people. Though pittsburgh doesn't have as many racial issues as other major cities it is there. The higher up you go in neighborhood class, the more issues there are. With your huband being a black male you should choose your neighborhood wisely especially when it comes to the police. I am a black male and I've lived in south park(an upper middle class community south of the city) since april 2007 and I haven't had a car since september, between me and my girlfriend we had been pulled over in Bethel park(a upper middle class neighborhood right next to south park that I go through to get to town) five times in less than six months. It's not just us either other people in our apartment complex said the same thing, they said south park police are bad too, I haven't had that problem yet. One of my neighbors is a white woman who has a black boyfriend and she said she drove their car everday to the trolley station with bad inspection stickers pass the police and never got pulled over but her boyfriend drove across the street and got pulled over as he parked in the parking space in our parking lot, and got a ticket. I've had two of my friends get pulled over after visiting me, both were black.

Calling South Park and even Bethel Park "upper middle class" is quite a reach.
They are middle class but just because they are mostly white doesn't mean they are upper class. It does a disservice to the readers of this forum when people throw around terms like "upper class", "ghetto" and "racist". Some readers from other areas aren't as familiar with the Pittsburgh region as we are and are here to learn about the region. Fox Chapel, Sewickley Heights and Edgeworth are upper middle class South park is not.

[fleetiebelle]

Fox Chapel, Sewickley Heights and Edgeworth are upper middle class South park is not.

I'd counter that those neighborhoods are upper class areas, and South Park and Bethel Park are upper/middle class.

[zip95]

Originally Posted by fleetiebelle

I'd counter that those neighborhoods are upper class areas, and South Park and Bethel Park are upper/middle class.

Upper-middle class is somewhere over $100k. Poor upper class is somewhere around $200k and up.

Bethel Park at $58k and South Park at $54k are solidly middle class.

Fox Chapel and Sewickly Heights at $160k are blended upper-middle and upper class neighborhoods.