Pittsburgh population estimated to decline 0.08% in 2016... (Denver: real estate, apartment, for rent)

[slackercruster]

Pitts is a hellhole. Was working there all week. The city is OK, it is the traffic and screwy streets.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by gladhands

It assumes that everyone who owns and operates a vehicle has enough of a financial cushion to absorb an additional expense, which is absurd. An extra $5/day is an extra 200/mo, which is a significant expense for the working-poor, and much of the middle class.

If one is traveling for business, such expenses should be reimbursed.

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by gladhands

It assumes that everyone who owns and operates a vehicle has enough of a financial cushion to absorb an additional expense, which is absurd. An extra $5/day is an extra 200/mo, which is a significant expense for the working-poor, and much of the middle class.

Considering the Pa Turnpike/local toll roads for example, raise rates on a regular basis, and Imo at a substantial rate, people still ride those roads.

It's also like saying when gas prices rise people can't afford to drive because of them.

You're assuming people that can afford to operate a vehicle can't afford it. Personally, I've never heard anyone say they can't afford to take the toll road, but I'd be interested to hear or see otherwise.

[charisb]

Originally Posted by Katarina Witt

charisb was talking about traveling for business. She doesn't like the toll roads in Denver and Austin that were built for "people with money".

No, I said *I* was travelling to those cities for business. People who live there travel for work, sports, etc. And toll roads like an interstate are different from toll roads that go through/connect different parts of a city.
And you must see the irony that you accuse me (who you know nothing about) of not knowing enough about other cities to comment on them, but you cry foul when people point out that you might have roots in Pittsburgh going back to the Revolutionary War but you have not lived here for 40 years, and therefore might not always be completely current on everything here.

[SteelCityRising]

So I'm assuming the spiking rents we've been experiencing are attributed to an increasing number of households despite the declining population, correct? If households are also in decline, then what gives? I was told the rising rents were due to demand outpacing supply; however, a declining number of households AND a declining population would indicate that landlords are just being greedy.

[xdv8]

Originally Posted by charisb

No, I said *I* was travelling to those cities for business. People who live there travel for work, sports, etc. And toll roads like an interstate are different from toll roads that go through/connect different parts of a city.
And you must see the irony that you accuse me (who you know nothing about) of not knowing enough about other cities to comment on them, but you cry foul when people point out that you might have roots in Pittsburgh going back to the Revolutionary War but you have not lived here for 40 years, and therefore might not always be completely current on everything here.

I'm guessing you haven't read the urban planning forum before? This is very typical.

I often don't drive toll roads because of their cost. I can afford it, so that's a decision I make, but I'm guessing for some there is no decision - the money isn't there. Is this really that difficult to understand? You can own a car and have zero money in your bank account.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

So I'm assuming the spiking rents we've been experiencing are attributed to an increasing number of households despite the declining population, correct? If households are also in decline, then what gives? I was told the rising rents were due to demand outpacing supply; however, a declining number of households AND a declining population would indicate that landlords are just being greedy.

Keep in mind that housing stock which is lost out the back end - mostly run-down houses in poor neighborhoods where the elderly age in place and then pass away - is often very hard to get back on the market again, even as low-level rentals. Which is why it is often abandoned. Indeed, frequently in bad neighborhoods, the homeowner-occupied housing is the stuff which gets abandoned and rots away, while the slumlords typically at least minimally maintain their properties.

That said, the number of households in Pittsburgh is almost certainly rising now, since the population decline is so slight. 2016 numbers aren't out yet, but from 2014 to 2015, the census estimated we rose slightly from 132,379 to 132,468.

[erieguy]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

So I'm assuming the spiking rents we've been experiencing are attributed to an increasing number of households despite the declining population, correct? If households are also in decline, then what gives? I was told the rising rents were due to demand outpacing supply; however, a declining number of households AND a declining population would indicate that landlords are just being greedy.

They're charging what people will pay.

How are they being greedy?

[Paul2421]

Originally Posted by SteelCityRising

So I'm assuming the spiking rents we've been experiencing are attributed to an increasing number of households despite the declining population, correct? If households are also in decline, then what gives? I was told the rising rents were due to demand outpacing supply; however, a declining number of households AND a declining population would indicate that landlords are just being greedy.

that is a good question. i'm guessing there was an inefficiency at the higer end of the rent market where consumers were willing to pay more than what was being charged. the higher end housing on the market in recent years filled that demand and the average rent rose. that is really the only explanation with no growth in population.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Paul2421

that is a good question. i'm guessing there was an inefficiency at the higer end of the rent market where consumers were willing to pay more than what was being charged. the higher end housing on the market in recent years filled that demand and the average rent rose. that is really the only explanation with no growth in population.

There's also been a shift in preference among younger Americans from homeownership to renting, even among those who can afford it. Thus even if you have the same number of housing units, you might have the rental unit demand rising very fast, while the demand for home ownership (in aggregate, not in individual trendy neighborhoods) is stagnant.