What don't you like about Pittsburgh? (York, Lebanon: top neighborhood, apartment, countertops)

[tluvpitt]

Originally Posted by Katiana

HA HA! I can't help it; it's just my nature b/c of my work. "Evidence-based practice" and all that. Or should I say "'n'at"? Anyway, your site looks cool; I shall have to puruse it when I'm not brain dead from a day of "evidence-based practice".

Katiana- "evidence-based practice" is all I do, too. We much be in the same field. What line of work are you in?

[ScranBarre]

Originally Posted by peanut33

So I've heard a lot about what people do like about Pittsburgh...what don't you like? Thanks!

It's too far from Scranton for me to visit y'all!

[tluvpitt]

Originally Posted by By~Tor

WOW! - - I can't believe this thread has gone so long. . . . in perusing it, I found the VAST majority of it to be consumed with talk of "rainy weather" and "alcohol purchasing" protocol. . . . . if THAT'S the two WORST THINGS about living in Pittsburgh, then Methinks that no one really oughtta be bitchin' about it..... Guess they've never seen baltimore or Detroit, eh? LOL!!!

I did see a post from a Philly guy about a perceived lack of "Cosmopolitanality", and I have to ask . . .. in comparison to PHILLY?!?!?!?! :-O

I looked at Philly through a microscope before we settled on Pittsburgh, and I can tell ya'. . . . there IS no comparison... Philly is a microcosm of everything that is BAD about New York, without many of the things that are GOOD about New York... It's dirty, grey, and the large minority population lives in many of the same areas that are considered "touristy", and the neighborhoods look alot less inviting to the casual observer than Pittsburgh... Crime is through the roof, and jobs aren't that well available... the one thing I WILL say to Philly's benefit, is that their train system rules, in comparison to Pittsburgh's meager "T". . . . .

As far as the flight of youth to other places, I think this is universal, and no matter where you live, the kids are going to go spread their wings elsewhere, as soon as they get a chance to get out & explore... just that in Pittsburgh, perhaps it SEEMS more noticeable because it's a smaller city.... but I also hear many of them come BACK to Pittsburgh after they realize that other cities are colder and less homey-feeling. . . . and at least, that's a positive thing...

For me, I currently live in New York, after having lived in Chicago, Saint Louis, Dallas and rural southern Illinois (where it's currently flooding). In the few trips I've made to Pittsburgh in anticipation of my upcoming move there in May, I've found there to be plenty of available cultural opportunities, a thriving pub/bar scene, great shopping and unique neighborhoods, all of which seem much cleaner and better kept than anything I've seen in any of the other aforementioned cities.... People are friendly, and I actualkly found a job and have it waiting for me, even BEFORE I officially "move" there!!!

If it's a little rainy and I have to drive a couple miles to buy alcohol, well then I suppose that's a pretty fair price to pay, for the overall Quality of Life gains I see coming, in my near future... at least I don't have to deal with the brown paper bag drinkers that permeate the New York streets (or the Philly streets) and leave their garbage everywhere for the world to see... and I can ALWAYS stock up on alcohol and fill up my basement bar, so I don't HAVE to go out but once a month or so. . . . .

Overall, the worst of the worst about Pittsburgh IS its convoluted and insensible road grid system . . . or rather, the lack OF a sensible grid system.... everyone tells me I should get a GPS system, just to navigate the local streets, and I find that funny, considering that I've never been "lost" in Dallas, St. Louis, Chicago or even New York, but I get driving in Pittsburgh and have to rely on the magnesium deposits in my nose to tell me which way "North" is, because the roads sure don't give you a hint!!!!!

But, balancing out even THAT complaint, is that Pittsburgh is GREAT about signage marking the way to Areas of Interest and even entire neighborhoods, so if ya' just follow the damned signs, you really can't get THAT lost, even without a grid pattern to go by....

I am a fairly "cosmopolitan" guy who has seen the world and "been there; done that" more times than I care to count... and I say, that I believe Pittsburgh is a rare gem of Americana, holding onto its Appalachian roots while it forges forward into the 21st Century with plenty of job growth and the chance to become, once again, one of America's great destination cities....

Now, what say you?..........

Yes...I bought a GPS unit only b/c I was getting sick of getting lost from East Liberty to 79...it has helped tremendously. Someone gave me the advice to learn my rivers and I'd never get lost, but water is water and that didn't seem too helpful.

Now...the large minority population comment...not sure what you meant about that.

[Katiana]

Originally Posted by tluvpitt

Katiana- "evidence-based practice" is all I do, too. We much be in the same field. What line of work are you in?

I am a nurse. And you?

[Katiana]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I'm not from Pittsburgh originally, and I have compared housing prices in many different cities. Pittsburgh does in fact have relatively inexpensive housing for a metropolitan area of its size--the differential is indeed highest if you compare it to cities in the Northeast Corridor or California (which of course covers a lot of places people might consider), but there is still a differential when you compare it to most cities elsewhere, just less of one (e.g., in Detroit you might only pay 20% more, as opposed to 3-4 times as much in DC, 4-5 times as much in NYC, and 6-7 times as much in SF).

I am from Pittsburgh but don't live there any more. BTW, london, I just got back from SCOTTSDALE! I was visiting my cousin. But anyway, Pittsburgh has a low average cost of housing, b/c there is a lot of old, run-down housing in the area, and not just in the city. The cost of housing you would want to live in is not *that much* lower. I was watching a show on HGTV last night where they gave a stat that a huge percentage of housing in the US is <200K. So Pittsburgh isn't that much different than a lot of other places, especiall (in my experience) in the midwest.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Katiana

But anyway, Pittsburgh has a low average cost of housing, b/c there is a lot of old, run-down housing in the area, and not just in the city. The cost of housing you would want to live in is not *that much* lower.

For what it is worth, I've been comparing the costs of houses I would actually like to live in. In many cities, the differential among the houses I would consider was even higher than the median statistics would indicate.

I was watching a show on HGTV last night where they gave a stat that a huge percentage of housing in the US is <200K.

Was that for just metropolitan areas of a comparable size to Pittsburgh? Because obviously housing tends to be a lot cheaper in smaller towns and rural areas.

So Pittsburgh isn't that much different than a lot of other places, especiall (in my experience) in the midwest.

In the Midwest, I am most familiar with Chicago and Detroit. Comparable housing is much more expensive in Chicago, and to my surprise it is somewhat more expensive in Detroit (despite all the economic problems in Detroit).

Again, though, there are plenty of small towns and rural areas in the Midwest where I am sure housing is pretty inexpensive.

[Katiana]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

For what it is worth, I've been comparing the costs of houses I would actually like to live in. In many cities, the differential among the houses I would consider was even higher than the median statistics would indicate.

Was that for just metropolitan areas of a comparable size to Pittsburgh? Because obviously housing tends to be a lot cheaper in smaller towns and rural areas.

No, it was nationwide. And I think it may have been <250K, not 200. Then they showed what 250, 500, 750 and 1 mil would get you in San Fran, Phoenix, Chicago and Indy. Indy was the lowest priced place. It is larger than Pittsburgh.

In the Midwest, I am most familiar with Chicago and Detroit. Comparable housing is much more expensive in Chicago, and to my surprise it is somewhat more expensive in Detroit (despite all the economic problems in Detroit).

Again, though, there are plenty of small towns and rural areas in the Midwest where I am sure housing is pretty inexpensive.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Katiana

No, it was nationwide. And I think it may have been <250K, not 200. Then they showed what 250, 500, 750 and 1 mil would get you in San Fran, Phoenix, Chicago and Indy. Indy was the lowest priced place. It is larger than Pittsburgh.

Actually, by MSA population, Pittsburgh is #22 with about 2.36 million people (per the 2007 Census estimate), and Indy is #33 with about 1.7 million (Chicago is #3, SF #12, and Phoenix #13).

I didn't see the show so I can't comment on that, but I just looked it up and Indianapolis had pretty much the same median sales price for existing single family homes in 2007 as Pittsburgh, so that sounds like another pretty inexpensive city (SF, Phoenix, and Chicago are all much higher, particular SF).

Incidentally, on a general point: the statistics I am looking at are from the National Association of Realtors, and they report sales prices. I understand the idea that a city could have a lot of undesirable homes around driving down average home values in some general sense, but it is harder for me to understand how that would have a significant effect on average home sales prices, since obviously a home only gets included in that statistic if someone was willing to buy it.

[londonbarcelona]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I'm not from Pittsburgh originally, and I have compared housing prices in many different cities. Pittsburgh does in fact have relatively inexpensive housing for a metropolitan area of its size--the differential is indeed highest if you compare it to cities in the Northeast Corridor or California (which of course covers a lot of places people might consider), but there is still a differential when you compare it to most cities elsewhere, just less of one (e.g., in Detroit you might only pay 20% more, as opposed to 3-4 times as much in DC, 4-5 times as much in NYC, and 6-7 times as much in SF).

Brian,
No offense, but the houses you get for the same amount of money in Pittsburgh are uninhabitable! The city housing is limited because most of it needs a great deal of work. A decent neighborhood (like Shady side is still 600K for a house.) How is that cheaper? The so called suburbs here are priced about the same as they are elsewhere, but in my experience (and I've lived in 12 different cities with homes) the housing in NOT cheaper here - unless someone wants to do what you did and gut the place.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by londonbarcelona

Brian,
No offense, but the houses you get for the same amount of money in Pittsburgh are uninhabitable! The city housing is limited because most of it needs a great deal of work. A decent neighborhood (like Shady side is still 600K for a house.) How is that cheaper?

Shadyside is more than a "decent neighborhood": it is the most expensive neighborhood in the East End. If you compare Shadyside prices to the most expensive city neighborhoods in most equivalent cities, the prices in Shadyside will indeed still be lower (e.g., $600K won't get you anything in one of the top neighborhoods in DC--in fact, it won't get you anything in one of the middle-ranked neighborhoods, and you would instead have to look at one of the transitional areas if you only wanted to spend that much). Similarly, if you look in less expensive East End neighborhoods (there is a whole range: Squirrel Hill and Point Breeze are a bit less expensive than Shadyside, places like Regent Square and Highland Park are even less expensive, and so on), and compare those to the equivalently-ranked city neighborhoods in most other cities, you will again find that same differential.

The so called suburbs here are priced about the same as they are elsewhere, but in my experience (and I've lived in 12 different cities with homes) the housing in NOT cheaper here - unless someone wants to do what you did and gut the place.

As an aside, what do you mean by "so called suburbs"? What else would you call the suburbs in the Pittsburgh region?

Anyway, we didn't "gut" our place: most of what we did was cosmetic (e.g., we stripped a lot of painted molding and added a lot of new moldings) or an upgrade (e.g., we decided to replace some functional but older windows and appliances, and added a bath), but the home was basically in move-in condition when we bought it. And in my recent research, I have again been focusing on places which would not need much if any work.

As for your personal experience, obviously I am in no position to address that, so all I can do is repeat that I have in fact recently compared prices in many cities and found something very different from what you are reporting. And I might ask if you have recently surveyed prices in the cities where you have lived in the past, since many places experienced a large run up in the last 10 or so years. Pittsburgh, in contrast, only had moderate appreciation in that time (a bit more in the most popular neighborhoods, but still nothing like what happened in many cities overall), which is one of the reasons the current differential is so high. But if you were comparing Pittsburgh prices now to prices in cities where you lived years ago, it is true you might not detect as much of a difference.

Of course, as I noted above, I am also not sure how this theory of Pittsburgh being filled with uninhabitable homes explains the available statistics, which reflect lower prices in Pittsburgh among the homes actually being sold. I guess one could hypothesize that people were literally being forced to buy "uninhabitable" homes in Pittsburgh due to the lack of any alternative, but when I have looked at the Pittsburgh market recently, there were plenty of "habitable" homes available (even in the dead of winter), and in all my time on this forum, I can't recall anyone claiming that they were forced into buying an uninhabitable home when they moved to Pittsburgh because they couldn't find anything else.