What don't you like about Pittsburgh? (Wilkinsburg, California: condos, job, housing)

[guylocke]

Good catch, guylocke! Ordinarily, I am very careful about answering posts on this forum from people who just joined today. I let my guard slip on this one. But I do stand by what I said.

Well I think what you said is just good common sense and progressive thinking, Katiana. That sort of thinking can probably be applied to every city or situation... well, just about... EVER.



So I'm sticking by what you said, too!

[By~Tor]

Originally Posted by guylocke

By~Tor while I commend your zealousness, don't feed the obnoxious trolls (notice that post was his FIRST and ONLY post). I'm sure it is the same iteration of the several trolls who keep re-creating names just to get banned over and over, and I'm obviously not just saying that because it was a negative post.

You can tell by the writing that it's a troll and most of the stuff he or she said is completely and ludicrously false, misleading, generalized, and bitter.
:P

Thanks, guy - - - I kinda' figured he might be a troll, and I had noticed his rep of "10"... heck, I even gave him the one rep point, just for taking the time to write all that crap down, so I could smack him back down with his own words!!...LOL!!!

I'll try not to go after these peons so easily, but man - - - some of 'em just make it so EEEEASY to wail away at the, that it makes me remember the old adage:

"All that's required for evil to win, is for Good Men to do nothing".....

(Crawling back in my cage, now.....)

[guylocke]

I'll try not to go after these peons so easily, but man - - - some of 'em just make it so EEEEASY to wail away at the, that it makes me remember the old adage:

"All that's required for evil to win, is for Good Men to do nothing".....

Well said!! I like that!!

[londonbarcelona]

Originally Posted by By~Tor

My thoughts included, after each blanket statement:



This is too often the case in many cities, Pittsburgh being no exception. We need more money for Infrastructure repair & maintenance. Bush made this point clear in his inaugural address, and your congress has done nothing about it, until after the Minneapolis bridge collapse. Blame Congress, not Bush.



Please see above answer.



Again, please see above answer.....



Hell, I LOVE talking about race issues, because I've seen first-hand how they CAN be overcome, if only the people involved get off their behinds and stop complaining about the status quo and do something POSITIVE to change it. If the black community is downtrodden in Pittsburgh, then the black leaders should stand up and tell the gangs to put down their guns, so that investment can happen in their neighborhoods, and they can experience revitalization. As long as whites are afraid to walk streets of black neighborhoods, and with good reason, then the racial issues will continue, deepen, and eventually come to a head....



Who is doing all the shooting? Are they white, black, or otherly represented? Is it a gang issue, or a broader one?- - - Address the issue by cracking down on the perpetrators, not by giving them carte blanche to de facto rule by force....



I'm sure people care, but until money is in place to change these areas, they'll continue to depreciate in value until someone can come in and buy them up at little to no cost, and they will do like they did in St. Louis, building the neighborhood back from scratch.



"Horrible", how?. . . . . please at least give reasons, and perhaps even a few ideas for solutions.... blanket statements like these do no good for anyone....



You name one city over 50,000 that doesn't have this issue to some degree, and I'll sell ya' the Brooklyn Bridge, buddy!!! - - - From what ALL the facts bear out, crime in Pittsburgh really is alot better than the NATIONAL AVERAGE, and if there are a few neighborhoods in trouble, then the people living there have to be the FIRST ONES to make the efforts to root out the criminals... hell, I'd call the cops on my own kid, if he was a shiftless little thug, selling drugs or robbing people... screw 'im; I'd throw him to the wolves..... but if those in the area won't take the steps to rein in their kids, then the issue isn't about the "city"; it's about those irresponsible arseholes in certain areas OF IT who will not discipline their children....



Okay, what is City-Data supposed to do, show you pictures of the five-square block area of junkies, whores and the "criminal element"?... Oh yeah. that's a GREAT way to promote the city and get outsiders to come in and inject new funds into it..... this claim is so silly, I shouldn't even be responding to it....



Apparently, the 90% of Pittsburgh that's in decent shape wants beter arenas, and is willing to pay for them through bond elections that they voted for. I suggest putting initiatives on the ballot to raise money for underserved areas of the city to rebuild their infrastructure as well, or tie into the Stadium/Arena plans an additional requirement that the winning bid has to have plans for revitalizing the nearby areas surrounding the new facility.... hey, it worked in NEWARK, NEW JERSEY and ST. LOUIS, so it can work in Pittsburgh.....



I'm a Cowboys man, 'til I die.... I BLEED Blue & Silver.... now, so long as the Steelers don't come up against my 'Boys, I'll root for the home team, but I shall never forsake my beloved DALLAS COWBOYS!!!



I AM talking about it... here ya' go: "Hey, thugs and gangbangers. . . put down the guns, pull up your damned pants, and get real jobs, you tools!!!---Quit hurting your own communities, because it really ain't as cool as you think it is!!!!".....

There.... I did MY part, now you do yours, and place the blame where it rightfully goes.... don't expect the city to always bail out those who don't even care about their own block.....



"Depression all around"?.... the city looks pretty normal to me, man... try a week here in the Bronx with me, and let's see how fast your attitude about Pittsburgh changes for the better.... maybe, you'll even see some ways you could help IMPROVE it, rather than just bitchin' about it...



Are you one of Hillary's staffers or something?.... Who is paying you to say all this?!?!?! LOL!!!!

But hey. U S A U S A!!!! We're number one!



GO PENS!!!!!!!!! BRING IN ON HOME TO THE MELLON CENTER, BABY!!!!



Yup - - you DO work for CLinton, don'tcha'???. . . . Or, are you just too young to remember that this all started waaaaay back during Jimmy CARTER'S reign, and continued through Clinton, Reagan, and TWO Bushes???....

It ain't about who is President and I can make a case for ALL of them being to blame, but it's about LOCAL ACTIVISM, making a difference... just whining about it changes absolutely NOTHING.....



Welcome to life AFTER high-school, man.... this real world kinda' sux, eh?.... Not what they told ya' is was gonna' be, huh?.... Well - - - you had a chance to get a nice degree in Civil Engineering or Social Work..... time for you to put it to good use and change something!!!!! Show the world that YOU can make a difference, and help your city get better, even as you help yourself feel better about living here!!!!



Nope, sorry - - I really havn't payed much attention to the Steelers ever since the GIANTS won the Super Bowl a few months ago, man... I've been too busy getting ready to move to Pittsburgh and do whatever I can to make my block, neighborhood, and newly adopted city a better place......

So, what was last week's score, by the way, since you're so "plugged in"?.......







By~Tor 3:16 says I just whupped your *****.............................

By ~Tor and Lessports are both overly excited.
Pittsburgh has some nice areas. The city is beautiful at night.
It's at least trying to get more employers here to bring in jobs.
But one thing I disagree with is that every city has blight. That's not true. Amherst, NY does not and neither does Scottsdale, Arizona. Pittsburgh would be great, the buildings could be beautiful, but lessports is correct in saying the city is very dirty with garbage all over the place and the buildings are falling down in more areas than those that are taken care of. Buffalo is the same way, the whole area disgusts me.
Being poor is one thing, but being dirty is quite another.

If the city is passing bonds through city wide votes, and the people are approving them, then I say more power to the people. I did not know Pittsburgh had community input meetings and that bonds were voted on by the general population that will have to pay the additional expense. If that is true, that is definately a great thing! Scottsdale grew and improved greatly and thrives to this day because we pass bonds. It's the fairest way to go in my mind.

Some of the buildings that are falling down, either need to be torn down or brought back up to code. I know that is easier said then done. Other than the grittiness and the garbage in the streets, the lack of sidewalks in the so-called suburbs, and the houses that obviously need to be torn down, Pittsburgh has some nice areas. Unfortunately, the ugly areas seem to outweigh the nice ones.
Any one have any solutions?
As far as crime, Lessports must be talking about in the usual areas. It couldn't possibly be that spread out could it? I don't hear of much crime in many of the rural areas at least.....

[By~Tor]

Originally Posted by londonbarcelona

But one thing I disagree with is that every city has blight. That's not true. Amherst, NY does not and neither does Scottsdale, Arizona. Pittsburgh would be great, the buildings could be beautiful, but lessports is correct in saying the city is very dirty with garbage all over the place and the buildings are falling down in more areas than those that are taken care of. Buffalo is the same way, the whole area disgusts me.
Being poor is one thing, but being dirty is quite another.

As far as crime, Lessports must be talking about in the usual areas. It couldn't possibly be that spread out could it? I don't hear of much crime in many of the rural areas at least.....

I've spent alot of time driving throughout Pittsburgh and environs over the past 6-8 weeks, and I certainly don't mean to sound overly excited or pie-eyed when I say this, but I REALLY, TRULY did NOT see so much dirt & filth as I hear people talking about on here....

I've driven throughout the Strip, Downtown, Lawrenceville, Polish Hill, Oakland, North Shore, Troy Hill, Bluff, Southside Flats and Slopes, Mt. Washington, Duquense Heights, and all of these are inner-ring areas to the Central Business District. . . . . in fact, I and the entire group travelling with me were ALL impressed with just how CLEAN and free of filth the city areas were, in comparison to New York.... seriously!

There was a noticeable lack of empty bottles & cans, paper bags, crack baggies, plastics and other refuse which I had almost come to regard as part of the natural landscape here in New York, and Chicago, St. Louis & Dallas before it.... in comparison, Pittsburgh looks ALMOST "pristine", and my eyes can be very jaded at times, but in looking at moving to Pittsburgh, I purposely set out to look for and find all the negative things I could, so I wouldn't come in looking through rose-colored lenses, only to be surprised, later on....

As I had mentioned earlier in this thread, perhaps Pittsburghers are blessed enough to be able to have higher standards than most other cities' redidents when it comes to cleanliness, racial harmony and community issues . . . . and that could only be due to previous and ongoing efforts by the city to avoid becoming like Philly, New York or (God forbid) Baltimore.... so, please forgive me when I debate you on these issues, because from everything I have personally seen in all these cities, Pittsburgh comes out WAY ahead of them all, as a place which by comparison, seems clean, friendly, and has many opportunities for near-term growth that other places do not enjoy.

[BrianTH]

Just to chime in with my two cents, I think it is somewhat obvious that one's impression of the aesthetics of Pittsburgh may vary quite a bit depending on whether one's baseline is, say, Scottsdale or instead NYC.

Personally, I think the NYC comparison (or, better yet, places like Baltimore, Cleveland, or Detroit) is a little more fair, because Scottsdale just isn't the same sort of place as Pittsburgh: it is relatively new, relatively affluent, and only part of the greater Phoenix area. In fact, it would sort of be like comparing Pittsburgh to Sewickley, or NYC to Greenwich, CT.

I also want to note my strong preference for taking it very slowly when it comes to tearing down currently rundown historic homes in an effort to make Pittsburgh look more like a new-built place such as Scottsdale. Many of Pittsburgh's historic neighborhoods are slowly but surely making a comeback as urban living becomes popular once again, and indeed the highest local appreciation rates recently have been in neighborhoods like Lawrenceville or the South Side. But this is indeed a gradual process, and not all of Pittsburgh's neighborhoods are going to start it and move along at the same pace. So, I think a lot of patience is in order, and it is well worth holding off the wrecking ball whenever possible, because once those historic homes are lost, they really cannot be replaced.

And I think it is also well worth noting that the housing stock in these historic neighborhoods (both city and suburbs) forms a large part of Pittsburgh's competitive advantage when it comes to attracting and retaining valuable new residents: similar homes in places like NYC (or SF, or DC, or Boston, or Philly, or so on) are often several times more expensive than they are in Pittsburgh, and the multiple is even higher if you are willing to do some renovation. And again, it is fundamentally impossible for other cities to decide to match this competitive advantage in light of these new trends, because if those historic homes don't already exist, or if some do exist but demand has outstripped the local supply, then they really can't be duplicated today.

But if Pittsburgh razes these homes in an effort to look more like, say, Scottsdale, it will lose its competitive advantage, because any other city can do the same (meaning level whatever currently exists and build new homes). So, in my view it would be a very bad idea to try to use a place like Scottsdale as a model. Instead, when considering what to do with these neighborhoods, Pittsburgh should look at other places where historic neighborhoods have been successfully preserved over the long period in which those neighborhoods were out of style, and thus are now available to satisfy the growing demand for such housing. And indeed, there are many examples of that going on right here in Pittsburgh, so the first thing I would suggest is to see how that has been working right in our own city.

[guylocke]

Pittsburgh comes out WAY ahead of them all, as a place which by comparison, seems clean, friendly, and has many opportunities for near-term growth that other places do not enjoy.

I've had similar experiences as you, By~Tor. I think most people I speak to are actually fairly impressed with the cleanliness of Pittsburgh. I once had a good friend from Boston who used the T for the first time and said, "Omg, I could EAT off those tracks. Where are the rats??? Where is the fifth???"

It's not there! Surprise! Not to say that Pittsburgh couldn't be CLEANER. I believe Pittsburgh downscaled street cleaning etc which I don't agree with. But actually living downtown and being downtown every single day, I may see a bit of rubbish here or there, but overall, I think Pittsburgh is quite clean.

NYC has made HUGE progress in cleanliness, too. When I was in NYC in September, I was blown away at how cleaned up it was. It's been a long and expensive journey, but I could tell a difference IMMEDIATELY!

And as for the crime thing, statistics debunk that in a thorough way. I believe, at least the last time I checked, Pittsburgh is still statistically the safest metro in the top 25 largest US metro's when it comes to violent crime.

And to answer your question, Pittsburgh violent crime is almost exclusively dealt BY the black community and done TO the black community (also per statistics, I believe above 85%). That opens a whole new can of worms, but I am completely open to suggestion to change this. It's sad and unfortunate.

[scrapp]

Originally Posted by By~Tor

And in St. Louis, I never grasped the "true" meaning behind their opening salvoes of "Wht high school did ya' go to?", until I finally learned that they gauge your social standing and possible family wealth, by which HS you graduated from.... very provincial thinking, and as much as I LOVED living in St. Louis, the constant knowledge that the mindset was so provincial, is what enabled me to understand why its glory days were long gone, and not likely to return...

That is pretty unfair, people do this everywhere. For example, in Pittsburgh people will ask what part you live in or what street you live on for the same reason. (Do you live in Shadyside? Do you live in Homewood?) Same old thing.

[londonbarcelona]

Originally Posted by By~Tor

I've spent alot of time driving throughout Pittsburgh and environs over the past 6-8 weeks, and I certainly don't mean to sound overly excited or pie-eyed when I say this, but I REALLY, TRULY did NOT see so much dirt & filth as I hear people talking about on here....

I've driven throughout the Strip, Downtown, Lawrenceville, Polish Hill, Oakland, North Shore, Troy Hill, Bluff, Southside Flats and Slopes, Mt. Washington, Duquense Heights, and all of these are inner-ring areas to the Central Business District. . . . . in fact, I and the entire group travelling with me were ALL impressed with just how CLEAN and free of filth the city areas were, in comparison to New York.... seriously!

There was a noticeable lack of empty bottles & cans, paper bags, crack baggies, plastics and other refuse which I had almost come to regard as part of the natural landscape here in New York, and Chicago, St. Louis & Dallas before it.... in comparison, Pittsburgh looks ALMOST "pristine", and my eyes can be very jaded at times, but in looking at moving to Pittsburgh, I purposely set out to look for and find all the negative things I could, so I wouldn't come in looking through rose-colored lenses, only to be surprised, later on....

As I had mentioned earlier in this thread, perhaps Pittsburghers are blessed enough to be able to have higher standards than most other cities' redidents when it comes to cleanliness, racial harmony and community issues . . . . and that could only be due to previous and ongoing efforts by the city to avoid becoming like Philly, New York or (God forbid) Baltimore.... so, please forgive me when I debate you on these issues, because from everything I have personally seen in all these cities, Pittsburgh comes out WAY ahead of them all, as a place which by comparison, seems clean, friendly, and has many opportunities for near-term growth that other places do not enjoy.

By~Tor,

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to offend you. =(

I agree with you, Baltimore can be soooooooooo dirty and slummy in areas! I know the city well. Philly, we won't even go there - no seriously, I mean, we won't even GO there! LOL Philly is one tough city and makes Pittsburgh look like heaven, IMO! I love New York City since we are there every month. We have family all over the place in NYC - including Harlem (it's actually coming back if you can believe it!) but we usually stay in Manhatten. I totally agree that there are areas of NYC that are dirty, but the city is thriving and wealthy for the most part, so it's almost unfair to compare it to Pittsburgh.
I don't 'hate' Pittsburgh. I certainly didn't like living there, but it does have it's good points. I still stand by what I say, I think it's dirty and run down. BUT, it's all subjective, and if you like it (and it sure sounds like you do) then who cares what anyone else thinks?

I think you are just the kind of person who can make a difference there! Not by creating jobs, but by bringing in new ideas and creativity to the area. Spreading your joy to entice others to pick up after themselves, maybe get the city council to see that perhaps helping out some of the older residents that are unable to clean up their yards and paint their houses would be a benefit to the overall image of the city. (We do that in Scottsdale)

By~Tor, don't listen to other people -- including me. Everyone gauges things by their own experiences and what they feel comfortable with.
As I have said in prior posts, if you are from Pittsburgh, you will probably always LOVE Pittsburgh! (I know you are not, but who says you can't fall in love with a city you weren't born in?) I'm from Buffalo, New York -- not exactly the place for one to brag about. Talk about DEPRESSED!
But I absolutely would move back in a heartbeat. Why? Because it holds a place deep within my heart. And it's WAY more run down than Pittsburgh is!(The inner city at least) I wouldn't live in the city of Buffalo, but I adore the suburbs.
So I guess the point I am making is, listen to your heart, let crazy people such as myself say what we want (afterall, we are expressing opinions based on what we see. And everyone sees things differently.) and ENJOY your new city!
Soon, the weather (g-d willing) will be turning for the better and you will be able to enjoy the city during the best times of the year!
Best of luck to you By~Tor!

[londonbarcelona]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Just to chime in with my two cents, I think it is somewhat obvious that one's impression of the aesthetics of Pittsburgh may vary quite a bit depending on whether one's baseline is, say, Scottsdale or instead NYC.

Personally, I think the NYC comparison (or, better yet, places like Baltimore, Cleveland, or Detroit) is a little more fair, because Scottsdale just isn't the same sort of place as Pittsburgh: it is relatively new, relatively affluent, and only part of the greater Phoenix area. In fact, it would sort of be like comparing Pittsburgh to Sewickley, or NYC to Greenwich, CT.

I also want to note my strong preference for taking it very slowly when it comes to tearing down currently rundown historic homes in an effort to make Pittsburgh look more like a new-built place such as Scottsdale. Many of Pittsburgh's historic neighborhoods are slowly but surely making a comeback as urban living becomes popular once again, and indeed the highest local appreciation rates recently have been in neighborhoods like Lawrenceville or the South Side. But this is indeed a gradual process, and not all of Pittsburgh's neighborhoods are going to start it and move along at the same pace. So, I think a lot of patience is in order, and it is well worth holding off the wrecking ball whenever possible, because once those historic homes are lost, they really cannot be replaced.

And I think it is also well worth noting that the housing stock in these historic neighborhoods (both city and suburbs) forms a large part of Pittsburgh's competitive advantage when it comes to attracting and retaining valuable new residents: similar homes in places like NYC (or SF, or DC, or Boston, or Philly, or so on) are often several times more expensive than they are in Pittsburgh, and the multiple is even higher if you are willing to do some renovation. And again, it is fundamentally impossible for other cities to decide to match this competitive advantage in light of these new trends, because if those historic homes don't already exist, or if some do exist but demand has outstripped the local supply, then they really can't be duplicated today.

But if Pittsburgh razes these homes in an effort to look more like, say, Scottsdale, it will lose its competitive advantage, because any other city can do the same (meaning level whatever currently exists and build new homes). So, in my view it would be a very bad idea to try to use a place like Scottsdale as a model. Instead, when considering what to do with these neighborhoods, Pittsburgh should look at other places where historic neighborhoods have been successfully preserved over the long period in which those neighborhoods were out of style, and thus are now available to satisfy the growing demand for such housing. And indeed, there are many examples of that going on right here in Pittsburgh, so the first thing I would suggest is to see how that has been working right in our own city.

BrianTH,
Thank you for saying what you did so diplomatically. I absolutely agree with you when you say NOT to tear down the older historic buildings! My favorite part of Buffalo is the Elmwood Village - OLD by today's standards, but man, it's frickin' gorgeous!
I DO agree that they shouldn't be torn down but FIXED up in some way. I see it like this: Most of the city population is elderly and probably cannot afford to fix up where they live or can't do it themselves if they could! So, I suggest promoting programs that assist the poor and elderly to paint and cleanup their homes on the outside.
If only each neighborhood could look as lovely as Shadyside and others that have had their pictures posted. When I say tear down the run down crappy looking houses, I think you know which ones I mean. There is a distinct difference between some that are historic and in need of repair and some that look as if they are ready to run down on their own. I WISH Pittsburgh could find the resources to pretty up many of the areas like you have done in yours. The city needs more people like you.