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Old 10-29-2017, 09:30 PM
gg gg started this thread
 
Location: Pittsburgh
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I think this would be a dumb investment. I don't think we are going to grow enough to consider such an expense. I don't have super strong feelings on this, so would like to hear other's thoughts.

Extending East Busway from Swissvale to East Pittsburgh could cost $549 million | Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
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Old 10-29-2017, 10:29 PM
 
Location: Lawrenceville, Pittsburgh
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I feel like I don’t have perspective on what $500 million really is anymore. 15 years ago, our stadiums cost under $300 million. Now an apartment complex costs that same amount, and a stadium costs $1B+. Is $500m for an infrastructure project even that much these days?

That said, I feel as though we would be way better off spending to extend dedicated public transit west to the airport before we go further southeast toward the Mon Valley.
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Old 10-30-2017, 07:56 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
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Given the total cost projected ($549,000,000) and the projected increase in daily ridership (1,649) the cost is roughly $337,000 per additional rider. That isn't quite as bad as it sounds, because those riders will use it for significantly longer than one year. Thus if you presume that each of those riders uses it an average of two times a day every single day of the year, it will be...184.6 years...until the fare covers the initial cost of building it.

Oh, dear.

Seriously though, mass transit is never a money maker, particularly when it comes to capital grants projects like this. The grant money is out there, some transit system is going to get it - the question is, is it the best use of the money? I don't think so, and it's not clear whether the Port Authority does either. At the end of buildout, after all, it only expands EBA usage by 4.75%. We could get that level of expansion just by building a half-dozen major apartment projects along the EBA's existing line. It wouldn't be cheaper, but the recovery for the construction costs would happen a lot quicker.

The only serious reason to consider this if there is a pressing desire to gentrify Braddock and/or East Pittsburgh, because giving those areas rapid transit into the city would up their desirability a great deal. Of course, gentrification has yet to seriously move past East Liberty station on the Busway as it is (except for around Hamnett Station to a limited degree) so that eventuality may still be far away.
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Old 10-30-2017, 08:06 AM
 
Location: 15206
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
The only serious reason to consider this if there is a pressing desire to gentrify Braddock and/or East Pittsburgh, because giving those areas rapid transit into the city would up their desirability a great deal. Of course, gentrification has yet to seriously move past East Liberty station on the Busway as it is (except for around Hamnett Station to a limited degree) so that eventuality may still be far away.
Not gentrification, but development around the Homewood Station has been happening for a few years and I predict it'll continue over the next decade.

Instead of extending this, maybe the money should be spent on affordable housing around existing busway stops? And add an extra bus that goes from East Pgh to Swissvale / East Lib / Oakland / Downtown?
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Old 10-30-2017, 08:52 PM
gg gg started this thread
 
Location: Pittsburgh
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Originally Posted by selltheburgh View Post

Instead of extending this, maybe the money should be spent on affordable housing around existing busway stops? And add an extra bus that goes from East Pgh to Swissvale / East Lib / Oakland / Downtown?
I think this is my first thought. Don't extend it at this time as we can do a lot of things nearer downtown with that money to enhance what the busway already has going on. I don't think people need to live further out yet as there is a lot of work in Homewood and other closer places to be done. Hope they don't do this unless we feel we need more space which I don't think we do at this point or within the next 10 years. Too early for this project. At least that is how I feel now, but some good arguments could persuade me as I don't have a ton of knowledge on this idea.
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Old 11-01-2017, 02:23 PM
 
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My take is that Pittsburgh should be spending transportation dollars on infrastructure to support density within the city instead of facilitating sprawl. The solution to our transportation issues is not to make it easier to commute longer distances. The exact opposite is what we need, spend money to decrease commuting distances.

In the real world that translates to subsidizing public transit in dense portions of the city instead of subsidizing increased capacity further and further away from job and population centers. Also, instead of having parking minimums for developments in the city, switch to parking maximums. Parking minimums ensure that neighborhood space is taken up by parking rather than residential and commercial. Parking minimums decrease density to a point that cars are necessary and transit isn't frequent enough for people to live transit oriented lifestyles. Pittsburgh was originally, and still is, well suited to a density dense enough to support a good level of transit service. A high level of service is a necessity in order for middle-class people to view transit as a viable way to get around town.

A few long distance commuting bus routes will do little to transform Pittsburgh for the better. The same money spent on encouraging dense, walking and transit oriented neighborhoods would be transformative. That's the future. All i'm uncertain of is how long it will take America to make the transition back to that type of city structure.
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Old 11-01-2017, 03:07 PM
 
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I don't know what those figures mean, so I can't be outraged. My main question is "why"?
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Old 11-01-2017, 04:30 PM
 
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I’d think they would want to improve public transit in the Brighton corridor before moving points east
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Old 11-02-2017, 10:56 AM
 
Location: O'Hara Twp.
4,359 posts, read 7,479,241 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
Given the total cost projected ($549,000,000) and the projected increase in daily ridership (1,649) the cost is roughly $337,000 per additional rider. That isn't quite as bad as it sounds, because those riders will use it for significantly longer than one year. Thus if you presume that each of those riders uses it an average of two times a day every single day of the year, it will be...184.6 years...until the fare covers the initial cost of building it.
Couldn't you just buy everyone in East Pittsburgh a condo downtown instead?
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Old 11-02-2017, 11:03 AM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
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Originally Posted by robrobrob View Post
Couldn't you just buy everyone in East Pittsburgh a condo downtown instead?
That's why I said it would be more cost effective to build more apartments along the busway. Presuming each potential rider lived alone, $549 million works out to $333,000 per unit, which is certainly doable in terms of multifamily real estate development (particularly if you had no structured parking - which you really shouldn't if you're trying to up bus utilization.

Looking into it more, I concur with the poster above who suggested some work on the California Avenue line. Bellevue and Avalon are much denser in population than the Braddock-East Pittsburgh corridor. Hell, they're denser than Brighton Heights or Marshall Shadeland. It's the most obvious place to go if you want a transit line to follow density, rather than just underutilized railroad ROWs.
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