Re: Why Do Yinzers Come Off As 'Unfriendly'? (Pittsburgh, Wilkinsburg: school, college)

[HarryRSpooner]

Originally Posted by wpipkins2

I am a black native of the city of Pittsburgh and region. I can tell you that black folk LOVE strawberry pretzel Jell-O. We call it pretzel salad. Islay's made chipped ham universal. My mother used to buy it years ago. We never ate bologna we would often times have chipped ham sandwiches. Chipped ham is a Pittsburgh thing.

Awesome! That's kinda sorta what I figured. Thank you for the response! : )

[HarryRSpooner]

Originally Posted by Merge

The opinions of people that seek to make these types of generalizations about entire cities, and hundreds of thousands of people, are easily discounted as simplistic and reductionist.

So we shouldn't ever talk about the industrious northern cities and the more laid back southern cities? Because that would be a generalization, right? Even though such characterizations are largely, but not entirely accurate...

[HarryRSpooner]

Originally Posted by wpipkins2

Growing up in the East End most people especially black were not exposed to Yinzers. Back then Lawrenceville was a isolated community and the people were not seen or heard. Bloomfield was more visible but again most Pittsburgh residents never really acknowledged them. Yinzers are white, poor or a generation removed, and wore beat up LA Gear tennis shoes with Metallica T shirts complete with a over bleached mullet. You could spot a Yinzer a mile away. My first experience with a Yinzer did not happen until Highschool. Taylor Allderdice was diverse and many cultures intersected. Yinzers were from Lincoln Place and lower Greenfield.

The Southside was the epicenter of Yinzerdom. Again back then there was nothing on the Southside except for bars. The black people on the southside were weird as well. Yinzers and poor blacks interacted more with one another and some even took on the Yinzer fashion. This is still true to this day.

The east end is and was "liberal" but black and white people do not mix no matter the economic status.

Thank you for the education and the history lesson. I appreciate it. I never knew any of this and I wouldn't have ever guessed any of it.

[HarryRSpooner]

Originally Posted by Herodotus

Pittsburgh is not a "what school did you go to" city. Pittsburgh is a "what neighborhood are you from" city.

What does that make people from a small 'hood like Esplen? I guess they wouldn't call themselves as being from Esplen, they'd say, they're from close to the West End or something....or up by Sheraden, but not quite Sheraden?

[HarryRSpooner]

Originally Posted by Herodotus

Penguin tickets are expensive, but lots of black folks are hyped about the Pens. Black people have become much less dismissive of hockey since seeing a black person playing is no longer as rare as seeing a dodo bird. The Pens success has also increased interest. I can remember being surprised to see a Pens game on tv in a black bar back in the 90s, but during the last two playoff runs, I've seen crowds of noisy black fans glued to the tv in black bars and clubs. When the Pens won the cup, my facebook was overrun with Penguins posts, even from women.

I do agree with Pipkins, in that I grew up on the southern hilltop, and there, black and white have always come into close contact, much more than on the Hill, or the East End. I know an older black guy who uses yinz all the time, and using "needs" without "to be" is common as well.

Interesting, I'm not judging, but isn't it telling that black people become more interested in hockey when they see a black face on the screen. Is "in group" preference such a bad thing? Though, think about this, aren't there more white fans of black athletes than the other way around?

[dbsteel]

Originally Posted by gladhands

Ynizers are tribal, and there's definitely an undercurrent of resentment towards transplants or "The New Pittsburgh". That said, I completely disagree on your assessment of Pittsburgh drivers and COL. In my experience, Pittsburgh drivers are nicer than those in the The BOS-Wash corridor, Atlanta, Chicago or LA. Pittsburgh has relatively high gas prices because of PA's gas tax and Giant Eagle's semi-monopoly, but my two biggest expenses; housing and daycare/private school are SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper than I'd pay for comparable homes/neighborhoods/schools in other cities.

Tribal is a good description. Since moving here, I'm amazed at how many people seem to know everyone when we are out and about. How people are interlinked. Everyone's family is close by. And then you have us. Some people say it's hard to work your way in.

When we lived in Austin, everyone was a transplant. Totally different feel.

[Herodotus]

Originally Posted by HarryRSpooner

Interesting, I'm not judging, but isn't it telling that black people become more interested in hockey when they see a black face on the screen. Is "in group" preference such a bad thing? Though, think about this, aren't there more white fans of black athletes than the other way around?

Black people just tended to see it as a "white thing". Wasn't a game they grew up playing, and to top it off, no one black was in the NHL. Personally, I've followed the Pens since the Syl Apps days, but there weren't many like me. The difference from hoops, and football is that few fans grew up playing hockey, so you have to put some effort into learning the game. White fans grow up playing football and basketball, so they already have an interest in the game. Hockey wasn't really even that popular with whites in Pittsburgh until recently.

There used to be great fear among those running the college, and pro sports leagues, that white fans wouldn't tolerate more than a certain number of black players. This has been largely disproved. That said, I can understand why white fans like to see some white players competing at a high level in mostly black sports, as well as the reverse. Funny thing is, in the NBA, most of the elite white players are not American. In baseball, it's the reverse. Black Latinos now far outnumber African Americans. (for the record, I'm considering as a "black Latino", anyone who would generally be seen as black if they were a US native. Thus ARod, who is more phenotypically similar to an African American than Derek Jeter is, would fall into my "black Latino" category, as well as obvious cases like Starling Marte, and Gregory Polanco).

[wpipkins2]

Originally Posted by HarryRSpooner

Interesting, I'm not judging, but isn't it telling that black people become more interested in hockey when they see a black face on the screen. Is "in group" preference such a bad thing? Though, think about this, aren't there more white fans of black athletes than the other way around?

Could it be that there are more black athletes? Black people love Big Ben.

[HarryRSpooner]

Originally Posted by Herodotus

Black people just tended to see it as a "white thing". Wasn't a game they grew up playing, and to top it off, no one black was in the NHL. Personally, I've followed the Pens since the Syl Apps days, but there weren't many like me. The difference from hoops, and football is that few fans grew up playing hockey, so you have to put some effort into learning the game. White fans grow up playing football and basketball, so they already have an interest in the game. Hockey wasn't really even that popular with whites in Pittsburgh until recently.

There used to be great fear among those running the college, and pro sports leagues, that white fans wouldn't tolerate more than a certain number of black players. This has been largely disproved. That said, I can understand why white fans like to see some white players competing at a high level in mostly black sports, as well as the reverse. Funny thing is, in the NBA, most of the elite white players are not American. In baseball, it's the reverse. Black Latinos now far outnumber African Americans. (for the record, I'm considering as a "black Latino", anyone who would generally be seen as black if they were a US native. Thus ARod, who is more phenotypically similar to an African American than Derek Jeter is, would fall into my "black Latino" category, as well as obvious cases like Starling Marte, and Gregory Polanco).

Brilliant analysis. My mind is blown. You're right about basketball. I was in Slovenia when they beat Serbia for the European Championships. Players from the former Yugoslavia aren't half bad. Part of it is because they are TALL people. Far TALLER than me.

You know, I didn't realize Pittsburgh wasn't a big Hockey city until recently. It also makes sense about kids and the sports they play. To this day, I don't see many black kids in my mixed neighborhood playing street hockey.....

[HarryRSpooner]

Originally Posted by wpipkins2

Could it be that there are more black athletes? Black people love Big Ben.

Fair point, but by that logic, you could say there are more whites overall in the United States. Therefore, it makes sense that there are more white CEOs or white members of Congress, or whites at Ivy League institutions.... Are blacks underrepresented in those places? Yep. Is that indicative of systemic racism? In part = probably, but I don't think that's the whole picture either. Too easy to scream racist! And not fix the problem.