Adding a driveway to a residential property in the city (Pittsburgh: how much, contractors)

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Lost_In_Translation

If it takes a car and turns it perpendicular to the road, that should add rather than subtract space?

It eliminates one on-street parking space though. Of course the homowner who gets the curb cut put in probably parked on the street already, but not at all times. And depending upon where the curb cut is located it could eliminate something closer to two spaces rather than one.

It's become a bigger issue though in places like the South Side, where the infill houses are required to have one off-street parking space under zoning, which requires a curb cut and front garage on the first floor (provided there is no alley access). Given those lots were formerly vacant, every new house reduces the number of on-street parking spaces by at least one.

[djfiler]

Correct, it typically eliminates two spots rather than one. Turning radius into the cut consumes space as well. On top of that, it creates alignment issues further down the street. If there are 3.5 spots in front of the new cut and 3.5 spots behind the new cut, both of those half spots are now useless.

But more importantly, it is taking property from the public and giving it to a single individual. Ironically, it is in neighborhoods where curb cuts are most needed that they also have the biggest negative impact on the public. I wanted one when i bought a house in a dense neighborhood. Now I see how it is a moral dilemma.

[Lost_In_Translation]

Given how poorly people parallel park, I don’t see it taking two spaces, a 20 foot curb cut (width of average south side property) really only is parking for 1 full sedan with 2 foot space in front and back. The 3.5 spaces in front and behind are an illusion because some people will leave 5 feet in front and behind whereas if you park at the curb cut you can leave 0 in front or behind because you know there is no one going to block you in. Yes, I admit that it creates a level of inefficiency when not in use, but honestly it is after 6pm and before 6am when the most cars need the spaces and the curb cut allows the homeowner to not be in need of more than one. Now if they still street park, it’s kind of douchey, but in theory I think it is a wash.

[djfiler]

Regardless of how one feels about the public/private quandary, there is a good discussion to be had regarding how much street parking is consumed by a curb cut. It isn't so much a matter of opinion but rather a discussion of facts that are not always obvious.

Curb cuts usually consume more than one spot. That's just the way it is, no matter how one feels about them. This is especially apparent in dense neighborhoods where street parking is constrained by more than just a single cut.

On my street alone there are multiple examples. There are a couple 1.75 wide spaces between adjacent property's driveways. Another couple stretches are 3.5 spots wide. Where the distance between cuts is a precise number of cars, it is considered bad manners by longtime residents to leave space between a curb cut and your bumper. If that isn't done, that space is wasted. A 4-wide stretch can be consumed by 2 cars if not parked well. This tends to enrage long-time residents because it takes a while for recent renters to figure out which parts of the street have extra room between curb cuts and which don't.

When cuts were added in the past decade, the impact (beyond the exact width consumed by the cuts) was obvious.

[djfiler]

This jogs my memory about epidemics of illegal driveways in other dense cities. Most recently there has been a lot of controversy in Brooklyn. Such a high percentage of homeowners have installed illegal driveways that some neighborhoods have almost no public parking anymore. It's a snowballing effect. The more homeowners that install driveways, the more pressure there is on other homeowners to install driveways. Soon, rentals in the neighborhood no longer have a viable amount of parking. That leads to a decline in property value for the rentals and other single family homes that don't have the opportunity for a driveway. It really is a big deal.

Try googling "illegal curb cut brooklyn" or "illegal curb cut new york" to see a cross section of the topics involved:
https://nypost.com/2018/02/15/reside...rivers-fuming/
https://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2...and-driveways/
Residents say illegal driveways plague Brooklyn - Story | WNYW

These articles deal with illegal curb cuts but it does do a good job of demonstrating that parking is a big deal and that curb cuts have a big impact on parking.

[Lost_In_Translation]

Originally Posted by djfiler

This jogs my memory about epidemics of illegal driveways in other dense cities. Most recently there has been a lot of controversy in Brooklyn. Such a high percentage of homeowners have installed illegal driveways that some neighborhoods have almost no public parking anymore. It's a snowballing effect. The more homeowners that install driveways, the more pressure there is on other homeowners to install driveways. Soon, rentals in the neighborhood no longer have a viable amount of parking. That leads to a decline in property value for the rentals and other single family homes that don't have the opportunity for a driveway. It really is a big deal.

Try googling "illegal curb cut brooklyn" or "illegal curb cut new york" to see a cross section of the topics involved:
https://nypost.com/2018/02/15/reside...rivers-fuming/
https://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2...and-driveways/
Residents say illegal driveways plague Brooklyn - Story | WNYW

These articles deal with illegal curb cuts but it does do a good job of demonstrating that parking is a big deal and that curb cuts have a big impact on parking.

No doubt curb cuts affect parking, but I’d be more concerned with illegal subdividing of properties or subletting that grow the number of vehicles, which leads to the war for curb cutting to deal with the declining openness of spots. It’s a multifaceted problem but I do find it funny that you used Brooklyn as an example and simultaneously talked about declining property value. Brooklyn is one of the most gentrified areas so curb cuts didn’t exactly doom the area.

[Clint.]

Interesting conversation. I didn't realize how controversial adding a driveway with a curb cut could be. It's not something I'm going to pursue for at least several months, and maybe not until next spring, but will be sure to follow up with my experience when I do.

[djfiler]

Originally Posted by Lost_In_Translation

No doubt curb cuts affect parking, but I’d be more concerned with illegal subdividing of properties or subletting that grow the number of vehicles, which leads to the war for curb cutting to deal with the declining openness of spots. It’s a multifaceted problem but I do find it funny that you used Brooklyn as an example and simultaneously talked about declining property value. Brooklyn is one of the most gentrified areas so curb cuts didn’t exactly doom the area.

Agreed, subdividing is also a concern. That's an interesting subject because without single family homes being subdivided or replaced by multi-units, housing costs skyrocket when a city grows. Throw in a comment about gentrification and it gets really contentious.

And you're right that my description of the property value concerns was a bit off. Instead of saying that illegal curb cut cause a "decline" in property value, it should have have been phrased differently. Decreased parking from curb cuts has hurt the owners financially. While Brooklyn owners experienced an increase as the whole area gentrified, those without their own illegal cut would have profited more if their neighborhood hadn't been stripped of public parking.

I guess what I'm getting at is that new curb cuts can cause a surprising amount of neighborhood conflict. Those conflicts range from simple annoyance to lifelong grudges between neighbors.

Good luck with your home Clint! It would be fun to hear your experience if you pursue a curb cut in the future. Hopefully your neighborhood is such that it wouldn't create conflict.

[Clint.]

I should have asked earlier, but can anyone recommend a contractor who can do all of the work for me? The hillside is about 36 inches above the street grade, at about a 30 degree slope, but after 5 feet into the yard it becomes very flat. So there needs to be some excavation, but a fairly small amount by Pittsburgh topography. Are prices and work quality for a job like this pretty similar among reputable contractors?

[guy2073]

Originally Posted by Clint.

I should have asked earlier, but can anyone recommend a contractor who can do all of the work for me? The hillside is about 36 inches above the street grade, at about a 30 degree slope, but after 5 feet into the yard it becomes very flat. So there needs to be some excavation, but a fairly small amount by Pittsburgh topography. Are prices and work quality for a job like this pretty similar among reputable contractors?

Prices and quality differ wildly, try to message doowlle34, he is going through the same process as you. He is looking for a concrete contractor and is the same area.