What do Native Pittsburghers Consider Themselves? (Philadelphia, York: college, versus, metropolitan area)

[JoeP]

It's even more different from a city like Philadelphia or Boston.

The biggest differences relate to the largeness of the Philly and Boston areas. There is a clear difference between Pittsburgh and the Midwest.


The East Coast does = Northeast.


The Northeast is bigger and more diverse than that. People really need to get out more.

[gameguy56]

Originally Posted by supersoulty

It's even more different from a city like Philadelphia or Boston.

Yeah, but we're more similar to other 'western' Northeast cities like Buffalo, Syracuse, etc.

[Katiana]

Originally Posted by PeterRabbit

We don't associate ourselves with anything or anyone Midwestern. It's akin to stepping in dog poo. Only outsiders try to label us as a Midwestern city. We're as Midwestern as we are Southern.

The dog poo line is overstating it a bit. Interestingly, in the midwest, people look down on the "east". And they think the midwest starts in Ohio, not Allegheny County, PA. Heck, there is another county to the west in PA yet (Beaver).

[supersoulty]

Originally Posted by JoeP

The biggest differences relate to the largeness of the Philly and Boston areas. There is a clear difference between Pittsburgh and the Midwest.


The East Coast does = Northeast.


The Northeast is bigger and more diverse than that. People really need to get out more.

I don't think midwestern cities are as massively universe as you claim. Certainly, in terms of racial segregation, Pittsburgh is more segregated than a number of other similar cities in the Northeast.

I agree with you about size, but Pittsburgh lacks a good comparison to other Northeastern cities, which is kinda the point.

[ainulinale]

Originally Posted by supersoulty

Tough question. I answered "Midwestern" accidentally, because my gut reaction in that Pittsburgh's attitude, economy and culture are most like a Midwest city. I would define Western PA as being the far Eastern edge of the Midwest, from a cultural standpoint. Central, PA is an extension of Appalachia. That being said, Pittsburghers probably consider themselves to be more Northeastern, just because we are in a "Northeastern" state.

Why would you say Pittsburgh's attitude, economy and culture is more like the Midwest? Pittsburgh is one of the most educated cities in the country--the only Midwestern city in the top 20 is St. Paul, the Northeast has: Washington DC, Boston and New York. On economic connectivity Pittsburgh's most important cities are: (1) Washington DC, (4) Philadelphia, (7) Boston; I don't know where Pittsburgh ranks on the East Coast hinterlands except for New York--Pittsburgh is the fourth most important American city for New York in economics. I also think it's worth mentioning that Pittsburgh might not exist if it wasn't for it's connectivity to the East Coast. The Pennsylvania cannal connected Pittsburgh and Philadelphia and the influx of everything from the East Coast probably saved the city from decay.

[JoeP]

I don't think midwestern cities are as massively universe as you claim

I don't think midwestern cities are universaly. I really think there are two midwests - the Great Lakes and the agricultural/plain states Midwest.

Pittsburgh is more segregated than a number of other similar cities in the Northeast.

You don't think other Northeastern cities are segregated?

I agree with you about size, but Pittsburgh lacks a good comparison to other Northeastern cities, which is kinda the point.

Well you have a few cities that are significantly larger than Pittsburgh and many other metros that are smaller. The only one comparable in size is Baltimore, but it's connected to DC.

But the point that many are really making is that it's not East Coast.

My point is that East Coast does not define the Northeast.

Albany, Syracuse, Buffalo, Rochester etc are not East Coast, but they are Northeast.

[supersoulty]

Originally Posted by gameguy56

Yeah, but we're more similar to other 'western' Northeast cities like Buffalo, Syracuse, etc.

Those are "Great Lakes" cities. Different culture. The whole "Northeast, Midwest, Southeast, West, Southwest" thing isn't very accurate anyway. What is so special about state lines that all of a state should be considered in one of the other? For that matter, how can we presume to categorize all places as fitting into one of those five boxes? It doesn't work in real life. If given the choice, I would say that Pittsburgh is the Center of a "North Ohio Valley" region that includes most of Western, PA, minus Erie, perhaps the Youngstown area, Wheeling and northern West Virginia.

[ainulinale]

Originally Posted by supersoulty

Those are "Great Lakes" cities. Different culture. The whole "Northeast, Midwest, Southeast, West, Southwest" thing isn't very accurate anyway. What is so special about state lines that all of a state should be considered in one of the other? For that matter, how can we presume to categorize all places as fitting into one of those five boxes? It doesn't work in real life. If given the choice, I would say that Pittsburgh is the Center of a "North Ohio Valley" region that includes most of Western, PA, minus Erie, perhaps the Youngstown area, Wheeling and northern West Virginia.

Might as well separate DC-Baltimore from Philly from NYC from Boston--then there is no such thing as the East Coast at all. That is if any bit of variance is cause for distinguishing it from another region.

My real question is this: what specifically do you think defines a city as Northeastern/East Coast?

[supersoulty]

Originally Posted by JoeP

I don't think midwestern cities are universaly. I really think there are two midwests - the Great Lakes and the agricultural/plain states Midwest.

I actually meant to say "undiverse". Sorry.

You don't think other Northeastern cities are segregated?

They sure are... every place is. But one thing that people who come here, from other locals tend to note is that Pittsburgh suffers from extreme racial segregation, more akin to what you would find in Cleveland, Detroit or Cincinnati.

Well you have a few cities that are significantly larger than Pittsburgh and many other metros that are smaller. The only one comparable in size is Baltimore, but it's connected to DC.

But the point that many are really making is that it's not East Coast.

My point is that East Coast does not define the Northeast.

Albany, Syracuse, Buffalo, Rochester etc are not East Coast, but they are Northeast.

The reason you can't find a comparison to Pittsburgh in most of the Northeast is because most Northeastern cities all smash into each other. Pittsburgh doesn't have that issue. Thus, that makes it more like a mid-western city. To just arbitrarily say that Pittsburgh is in the Northeast because it is 30 miles east of the Ohio boarder is sorta pushing the limit.

I started out my part of the discussion by noting I was talking about "Western, PA" not just Pittsburgh. The two can't be separated, it helps to look at the rest of the area I am talking about. Certainly the towns and small cities around Pittsburgh are far more Midwestern in attitudes and economy than they are Northeastern.

[supersoulty]

Originally Posted by ainulinale

Might as well separate DC-Baltimore from Philly from NYC from Boston--then there is no such thing as the East Coast at all. That is if any bit of variance is cause for distinguishing it from another region.

My real question is this: what specifically do you think defines a city as Northeastern/East Coast?

Well, you could. But those cities are all part of an East Coast Continuum, so it makes it a lot easier to imagine what they have in common.