Ross township? (Pittsburgh, Butler, Fox Chapel: chapel, house, private school tuition)

[melkat]

We are headed to Pittsburgh next week to do our whirlwind tour (we are actually heading to Rochester but stopping over night) My husband wants me to map out all of the towns that I want to look at. So far they are Mt Lebannon, Fox chapel area (Aspinwall especially) and Seweickly. Now I am wondering about Ross township but would like to know which are the better towns to look at and how are the schools? So far I am thinking I like the fox chapel area because it is closer to the children's museum, wholefoods/trader joes, the zoo etc... but Ross township is closer to his work.

TIA

[LiveinPA]

Ross is nice. Fox Chapel is very nice (rich)...the property taxes in all those places will blow your mind though.

[melkat]

Originally Posted by LiveinPA

property taxes in all those places will blow your mind though.

Really? I looked online at taxes and it seems like for a 250k ish size house the taxes are roughly 6k a year...is that not correct?

[LiveinPA]

Originally Posted by melkat

Really? I looked online at taxes and it seems like for a 250k ish size house the taxes are roughly 6k a year...is that not correct?

It may be depending on the area. Still I would call $500 a month in taxes excessive wouldn't you?

Also, always make sure you have the current assessment on the house as that determines what you pay.

If you make substantial changes to the home or add an addition you can get reassessed and taxes will go up.

[melkat]

coming from CT and western NY no that isn't a lot of taxes..it would be almost 2k more a year in CT It is more than here in NC but if I were to send all 3 of my girls to private school which we would have to do (or move to another county) we would be spending 30k a year so 6 k for taxes with good schools is a bargain to us!

I will check on the assessment..thanks for the heads up!!

[LiveinPA]

Originally Posted by melkat

coming from CT and western NY no that isn't a lot of taxes..it would be almost 2k more a year in CT It is more than here in NC but if I were to send all 3 of my girls to private school which we would have to do (or move to another county) we would be spending 30k a year so 6 k for taxes with good schools is a bargain to us!

I will check on the assessment..thanks for the heads up!!

Just wondering where you are getting that PGH has "good schools"?

While teacher salaries are some the highest in the US, schools rank near the bottom.

Just a quick Google search brought me this blog which sums it up fairly well: http://www.alleghenyinstitute.org/bl...nt-shrinks.php

The morning paper brings news that Pittsburgh Public School enrolment has tumbled again, falling to 29,445 as of September 2006. In the budget for 2006, the district reported 32,529 students attending as of September 30, 2005. That’s a whopping drop of 3,084 or 9.5 percent from the number used for budgeting purposes.

Since 1998, enrollment in Pittsburgh schools (including Mt.Oliver, which is a very tiny fraction of the total) is down over 10,000 students or 25 percent while the City’s population is down by just under 10 percent. Obviously, a couple of very important things are happening. First, parents are taking children out of public schools and placing them in alternative education venues because of the poor quality of education and the lack of discipline in the learning environments prevalent in many City schools. Second, parents of school age children are leaving the City altogether. With losing nearly 4,000 people per year in Pittsburgh’s population, it is more than likely that a high percentage of people leaving are families with school age children who cannot afford private school tuition.

Bear in mind that Pittsburgh’s population to public school enrolment ratio is 10.6 to 1. Statewide the ratio is about 6 to 1. Thus, the burden to taxpayers to fund Pittsburgh’s schools should be much less than the state average. But it is not because of the nearly $18,000 per pupil the district spends on general operations that more than offsets the lower student to population ratio advantage the district should have.

Bad schools and high taxes; the perfect storm for driving people out of the City, especially those with children.

Most people I know with children are working extra jobs to get their kids in private schools.

Also, PA has the 3rd strictest home schooling laws in the country. Parents must have a 4-year teaching degree and submit to state inspections and testing of the children. Hundreds of people have been brought to court over it and CPS tries to grab homeschooled children all the time.

My family is leaving Pgh specifically because we don't want our children going to school here.

Sorry if I sound harsh, but wanted to get another point of view in here.

Ultimately, decide what is best for you...

[melkat]

We are looking into Mt Lebannon, USC and Fox Chapel for schools not Pittsburgh city schools which that blog is referring to..they (suburbs) are much better than here..here teachers with masters earn 31k a year (VERY few have master's most don't even have a degree in education)..the student/teacher ratio is 24:1, schools are VERY overcrowded, many schools have more than 40 mobile units on them, teachers are not allowed to create their own cirriculums and must follow a script.

[LiveinPA]

Originally Posted by melkat

We are looking into Mt Lebannon, USC and Fox Chapel for schools not Pittsburgh city schools which that blog is referring to..they (suburbs) are much better than here..here teachers with masters earn 31k a year (VERY few have master's most don't even have a degree in education)..the student/teacher ratio is 24:1, schools are VERY overcrowded, many schools have more than 40 mobile units on them, teachers are not allowed to create their own cirriculums and must follow a script.

I don't know what the student/teacher ratio is in the schools you are looking at in PA. I grew up in the suburbs of the city, near the areas you mentioned. Classes even then were 18:1-30:1.

Schools are overcrowded here as well. My younger brother graduated high school maybe 5 years ago. Most of his classes were in a mobile and he did not have a locker. In all fairness, they have added an addition to the school since then.

As far as ciriculum- PA is one of the worst. I have a friend who was forced to resign because he deviated from the curiculum in a MATH class. Your children will only be taught what is in the book. This was in the Ross area (next district over)

I would recommend actually talking to people who are in the schools here and not just going by statistics or what the districts themselves say.

I'm not trying to be rude or anything, just when someone says they are moving here for the "good schools" it sends up a massive red flag in my mind. And yes, I'm talking about the suburbs of the north hills area.

Also, I don't know what your feelings on such things are but your child will most likely be required to wear an RFID badge in their school to track their movements and swipe for their meals. Even in my suburban school where there used to not be locks on the lockers, there are now metal detectors and police dogs. It's like a prison training camp. I actually grew up about 10 minutes from Ross, but cannot speak to exactly what that district's policies are today.

[melkat]

Live in PA:


Oh don't worry I know you weren't trying to be rude and can totally understand where you are coming from. I don't get why people are coming to Charlotte in droves and you probably have similar feelings We aren't moving there just for the schools (it is somewhat our reason but not the main reason) We want to be close to home (Rochester which is 4.5 hrs away..about the closest we could get with the economy in western NY) plus have more culture and things to do with the kids (museums, zoo etc...)

Even by what you posted I can tell you the schools there ARE better than here. The school system here is done by the county (and our county is huge..it would be like Allegheny county being in charge of ALL of the schools for the city and the towns..trust me it is a mess!) They will never build on to schools here since mobiles are cheaper. One of the elementary schools in our town was built for 700 students and has 1300 students (these are very common numbers sadly..the highschoolers can't even have lunch at school because there are too many kids)

We have teachers here who are also let go for the same reasons except here it is not teaching what is in the book it is what is on the *test* (EOG testing that starts in 3rd grade and kids are drilled starting in 1st grade) if a subject, like social studies, is not covered on the test they don't learn it..so my children would never take social studies in school along with other things that aren't on that test (the test scores determine $ for the schools)

State ratios for teacher student is lower in PA..our 24:1 is in kindergarten and goes up much higher as they get older...the schools that I have looked at are 16-17:1 which is much better..not that it is the be all and end all KWIM?

I belong to a huge moms group here (3k members with very busy online message boards) and have talked with about 12 moms who have lived in or grew up in Pittsburgh (1 has since moved back to Pitt) A little over half of them went to school in either Fox Chapel, Mt Lebo or USC and have said really great things about them (though this was a few years ago since most are in their late 20's early 30's so I know things have changed) and one's sister is a teacher in the Sewickley schools (drawing a blank on what the district is called) The one who moved back said that it is like night and day from here to there with her children in school.

Basically this is our plan: we are going into corporate housing in Fox chapel for 3-4 months and I am going to visit every school district I am interested in (my daughter will attend Fox chapel while we are living there) and visit more than once and talk to eveyone that will talk to me about it..if we had done that here we would have lived in a different county for sure but we were told our town had a good school..well good for NC doesn't mean it is good We know schools won't be as good as they are in W NY or CT (where we previously lived) but hey if they don't ask my daughter to call me ma'am I'll be happy!!!!

[LiveinPA]

I can only speak of what I know, but the nicest area schools are North of the city.

Fox Chapel, Ross, Hampton, Pine-Richland, Deer Lakes, Shaler, Knoch are all pretty good. Knoch is out of Allegheny though I believe, more towards Butler area. There are also a lot of private schools in the area too, most are geared towards religions though so it may limit your options.

I would check those out as a start.