North Side = Pittsburgh's wild wild west (Washington, St. Clair: wages, jobs, houses)

[Bazzwell]

Originally Posted by zip95

By~Tor,
......If we REALLY want to be real, we should be obsessed with Fayette county. Homewood exists because it's residents were purposefully banned from participating in the race.....that's easy to understand. What's Fayette County's excuse??? Those people really need help.

C'mon up and take a poll. Of course they'll say we need more programs, more money, more this and more that. No county anywhere in this country would say less if you held the offer out there.

But Fayette County's ills are older than I'll bet anyone here on this forum. I've worked in or around Fayette most of my 49 years, born in Brownsville. Over the years I had the pleasure of meeting some of the old-time bigwigs before they passed on. Here's some things you might not know....

The politicians of old are one of the main reasons the county developed a little...behind, everyone else. They held it back on purpose for reasons an outsider who doesn't have a grasp on the history of the area might not get.

After WW2, Ford was seriously looking into building a manufacturing plant in the Fairchance area. This would have provided hundreds of good paying union jobs. They received no encouragement from county officials at all and dropped the idea.

When I-70 was being developed, the plan was to take it through Washington County then into Fayette County to the Maryland border. County officials pulled all the stops to keep it from coming through. Ever wonder why it instead runs through Westmoreland and then picks up again at Breezewood? Fayette County politicians of old.

This comes from several folks independent of each other who were in a position to know. The fear was that by opening up the county to outside development the death bell would sound for low wages paid a near captive audience. Companies would have to compete on a local level for workers or worse yet, a regional level if the highways opened up.

By the time the old factories and mines closed down, it was too late. There was nothing to replace the lost jobs. Ever since then Fayette's been a few steps behind for too many reasons to go into here. Probably always will be bless it's little heart.

[By~Tor]

Bazz...

Sounds alot like where I lived in downstate IL, Saline County....

They had a chance to get I-57 coming thru Harrisburg, and defeated it resoundingly, saying it would only add crime and noise...

Years later, after the coal mines shut down, Marion, IL, about 21 miles west of harrisburg, had I-57, and a hell of alot of business... harrisburg remained the same, with only a Wal-Mart & a Hardee's to really anchor it as a county seat... population declining, and at one point, a 27% unemployment rate in the county....

I call it the "Old Money" syndrome... the old families in charge decide they don't wanna' lose their feifdom to new business, and so they hamstring the whole community, in order to hold onto power just a little bit longer...

[TRO Z]

This post has been one of the best about the N.Side, that I've ever had the opportunity to read....

Alot of valid points have been made and Zip95 with the analogy about the race...Nailed It...

There will always be winners and losers in life, as long as we continue to operate as a capitalist society...Alot of the problems lie in the parenting of these young children, or the lack there of...Which I believe By-Tor would like to try and assist with...I wish you the best of luck with that, and I truly hope you can reach a couple of these kids...

Although Pittsburgh has a smaller inner city than say NY, LA, or Chicago...We still have city crime, we still have drugs and we will always have inner city violence...Only an act from God will stop that...The reasons are too numerous to list...

vtPGH, listed quite a few organizations that are truly helping the N.Side in rebuilding it's image and reputation...It wont happen over night..Pittsburgh is one of those cities that growth is very very slow, and the mind set even more difficult to change...The perception of the N.Side in many Pittsburghers minds ---well, we all know how that goes...But is it a reality--Of Course Not...

The N.Side is far from the Wild West, and much of the revitalization in the N.Side is just beginning...Hopefully people dont think, that the N.Side will oneday be like the SUBURBS...

[By~Tor]

Thanks for the kind words, Tro Z....

I don't think the north side will ever become another Gold Coast or Upper West Side, but if it can just become an area the locals in Pittsburgh aren't afraid to drive or walk through after 5pm, then that's a great start.. and making it safer for the people who LIVE there is the first step in revitalizing the whole city!...

Yes, crime and corruption WILL always be with us. But history proves, again and again, that when good people rise up to fight it, they usually win in the end, if they don't give up.

And, if we DO give up and accept the status quo and the provincial mindset of isolationism, one needs only look at East St. Louis, to see what the north side WILL eventually devolve into....

....And if THAT ain't enough to scare the crap outta' people into doing something, then nothing ever will... might as well just wall it off and call it "Fort Apache"...

[RockLobster]

Originally Posted by zip95

By~Tor,

Ravenstahl is a caretaker of the local system here in Pittsburgh. Gentrification is a simple and thoroughly understood process that has happened successfully thousands of times in thousands of areas. If he can't oversee something as easy as that, he should be replaced with some one who can.

Mark DeSantis

[zip95]

Originally Posted by By~Tor

Hey again, Zip!...

Again, I find that I agree with much more of what you say than you may believe... and I certainly am not one who seeks to establish the egalitarian "utopia" you mentioned, as I am a realist, too... There WILL always be winners 7 losers in life... but that's not to say, that at the very least, we can't find ways to make sure the "losers" don't have to live in an environment so devoid of hope, as to induce the criminal element to come in and institute de facto rule via gun violence and drug activity... it's not so much a "black or white" issue as it is, one of caring for the neighborhood you call your own.. end even the poorest of the poor are plenty capable of that much....

In brief, my understanding of the world is that it's a pretty ****ty place, by and large... people hate without reason, discriminate based on issues of color or financial worth... they rob, rape and kill.... and I'm certainly not gonna' be the crusader who stops it...

BUT - - - - if I CAN help to inspire at least one or two people who LIVE there to stand up and start DOING something to help stem the tide of negativism that has exascerbated the issue and turned it into a self-fulfilling prophecy for thousands, then I feel my time is well-spent, indeed...

And if YOU happened to be one of the people consigned to actually LIVE there yourself, you might tend to view my point of view more optimistically. . . . . but it's pretty easy to be nihillistic, from a distance...

I can understand all of that. It's not necessarily my opinion, but on this topic reasonable minds can differ.

Good luck...maybe you can help a few people escape.

[zip95]

Originally Posted by Bazzwell

C'mon up and take a poll. Of course they'll say we need more programs, more money, more this and more that. No county anywhere in this country would say less if you held the offer out there.

But Fayette County's ills are older than I'll bet anyone here on this forum. I've worked in or around Fayette most of my 49 years, born in Brownsville. Over the years I had the pleasure of meeting some of the old-time bigwigs before they passed on. Here's some things you might not know....

The politicians of old are one of the main reasons the county developed a little...behind, everyone else. They held it back on purpose for reasons an outsider who doesn't have a grasp on the history of the area might not get.

After WW2, Ford was seriously looking into building a manufacturing plant in the Fairchance area. This would have provided hundreds of good paying union jobs. They received no encouragement from county officials at all and dropped the idea.

When I-70 was being developed, the plan was to take it through Washington County then into Fayette County to the Maryland border. County officials pulled all the stops to keep it from coming through. Ever wonder why it instead runs through Westmoreland and then picks up again at Breezewood? Fayette County politicians of old.

This comes from several folks independent of each other who were in a position to know. The fear was that by opening up the county to outside development the death bell would sound for low wages paid a near captive audience. Companies would have to compete on a local level for workers or worse yet, a regional level if the highways opened up.

By the time the old factories and mines closed down, it was too late. There was nothing to replace the lost jobs. Ever since then Fayette's been a few steps behind for too many reasons to go into here. Probably always will be bless it's little heart.

I don't know if that's true but it's one hell of a story. I don't doubt it though since that's exactly the way things work.

[By~Tor]

Originally Posted by zip95

I can understand all of that. It's not necessarily my opinion, but on this topic reasonable minds can differ.

Good luck...maybe you can help a few people escape.

Well, "escaping" isn't the goal.... "rebuilding", where people can stay where they are at, but make it a better place for all, is the goal... at least, I would hope that would be the goal....

And there's always plenty of room for intelligently debating the issues. If everyone held the exact same opinions on everything, then how much fun would THAT be?.... Just shoot me NOW, and get that misery behind me!!!...LOL!!!!

[Amberloo]

First, you can not assume that because someone lives in a high crime area or that their house has been shot at means that person is bad, a drug dealer and especially that her children are bad. I think that you sound really rude and ignorant and you shouldn't comment on things that you ahve no clue about or can't relate to. That family did not ask for that and they definately don't deserve it. I won't even stoop to your level and really tell you about yourself.

Originally Posted by pitt_transplant

I wouldnt doubt the "mothers" were dealers or the kids were making problems.

The label child/mother doesnt = "innocent" at all.

heres the way it goes:
-let crap happen
-property values drop
-good people leave
-bad/hard-up people get stuck in crap places that get bought out or they get arrested/dead/moveon
-land bought out cheaply
-flatten and redevelop

The circle of lifeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[pittsburgh,pa]

Originally Posted by Amberloo

First, you can not assume that because someone lives in a high crime area or that their house has been shot at means that person is bad, a drug dealer and especially that her children are bad. I think that you sound really rude and ignorant and you shouldn't comment on things that you ahve no clue about or can't relate to. That family did not ask for that and they definately don't deserve it. I won't even stoop to your level and really tell you about yourself.

YOU ARE SO RIGHT YOU CANT PLACE LABELS ON PEOPLE LIKE THAT. IF YOU NO NOTHING ABOUT THE SITUATIONS THAT PEOPLE DEAL WITH IN THIS NIEBORHOODS THEN DONT SPEAK ON IT BECUASE YOU JUST CANT RELATE. I KNOW HOW IT IS BORN IN RAISED IN HOMEWOOD.