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Old 08-11-2019, 10:19 PM
 
Location: The canyon (with my pistols and knife)
13,254 posts, read 18,132,800 times
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So, did everybody have a good off-season? Lots of crazy things happened, from what I've heard, at least in the early part of the off-season, before the NFL Draft. Apparently, Mike Tomlin and Ben Roethlisberger did a terrible job of leading people who can't be led, so shame on them. It's also interesting how "all that talent" on the roster was really just two players who aren't with the team anymore, and the players they left behind ain't ****. In fact, the reason why the team is so quiet now is because they know they can't hang with a team that won seven games last season. Now it's time for somebody to post that GIF of Baker Mayfield twirling a football on his finger with a snot-nosed "you want a piece of me" look on his face.

But seriously, R.I.P. Darryl Drake.
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Old 08-11-2019, 10:51 PM
 
Location: Downtown Cranberry Twp.
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Tomlin hasn’t led anyone to anything of significance in many years. His playoff record has been lousy and if it hadn’t been for the Bengals handing him his last playoff win, it would be even worse.

He received a 1 year extension and that was a year too long. He’s a regular season champ and until he proves otherwise in the near future, I expect the organization to let him walk when his contract is up, which isn’t soon enough.
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Old 08-12-2019, 10:10 PM
 
2,216 posts, read 3,084,961 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erieguy View Post
Tomlin hasnít led anyone to anything of significance in many years. His playoff record has been lousy and if it hadnít been for the Bengals handing him his last playoff win, it would be even worse.

He received a 1 year extension and that was a year too long. Heís a regular season champ and until he proves otherwise in the near future, I expect the organization to let him walk when his contract is up, which isnít soon enough.
The team hasn't been good enough to go any farther. If you want to slam Tomlin, along with Colbert, slam their defensive drafting, which overall hasn't been good enough. All this talk about the team being loaded is nonsense. It's been a good team, but hardly a juggernaut. I'd compare their last decade to that of the Saints, usually pretty good, but not good enough. The Saints, like the Steelers, still have the same coach, and a qb that pretty much everyone outside of Pittsburgh thinks is better than Ben (he is). Unlike the Steelers, the Saints actually had 3 losing seasons during this stretch, but having drafted better lately, are once again a serious contender. How well the last 3 drafts work out will determine how good the Steelers will be during Ben's final years. The Steelers have been an 11 win type team the last few years. In 2017, most of the breaks went our way (other than the Jesse James play). Boswell seemed to never miss, allowing us to pull out close games. 13-3 was probably a better record than what the team actually was. Last year, the breaks went against us. James Conner fumbled away 2 games. The Cleveland game was won before he fumbled. A win in either game sends us to the playoffs. Grimble fumbles out of the endzone, costing us a game. A horrible call vs SD gives the Chargers a touchdown. Despite that, we led by 16 in the 3rd quarter when Davis blows up Joe Haden as he's making what likely would have been a game clinching int. Instead, the ball pops in the air, and is caught for a SD touchdown, putting them back in the game. Two very questionable interference calls in the NO game greatly impacted the outcome. Boswell was horrible last year. Sometimes the breaks go against you.
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Old 08-12-2019, 10:33 PM
 
Location: Downtown Cranberry Twp.
8,971 posts, read 5,553,283 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herodotus View Post
The team hasn't been good enough to go any farther. If you want to slam Tomlin, along with Colbert, slam their defensive drafting, which overall hasn't been good enough. All this talk about the team being loaded is nonsense. It's been a good team, but hardly a juggernaut. I'd compare their last decade to that of the Saints, usually pretty good, but not good enough. The Saints, like the Steelers, still have the same coach, and a qb that pretty much everyone outside of Pittsburgh thinks is better than Ben (he is). Unlike the Steelers, the Saints actually had 3 losing seasons during this stretch, but having drafted better lately, are once again a serious contender. How well the last 3 drafts work out will determine how good the Steelers will be during Ben's final years. The Steelers have been an 11 win type team the last few years. In 2017, most of the breaks went our way (other than the Jesse James play). Boswell seemed to never miss, allowing us to pull out close games. 13-3 was probably a better record than what the team actually was. Last year, the breaks went against us. James Conner fumbled away 2 games. The Cleveland game was won before he fumbled. A win in either game sends us to the playoffs. Grimble fumbles out of the endzone, costing us a game. A horrible call vs SD gives the Chargers a touchdown. Despite that, we led by 16 in the 3rd quarter when Davis blows up Joe Haden as he's making what likely would have been a game clinching int. Instead, the ball pops in the air, and is caught for a SD touchdown, putting them back in the game. Two very questionable interference calls in the NO game greatly impacted the outcome. Boswell was horrible last year. Sometimes the breaks go against you.
Actually, the Stiller’s have been pretty good, statistically. You can go back many years to see that. 2018 NFL Team Total Stats - National Football League - ESPN

Stiller’s have also had one of the best running backs, qb, and wr in the league up until Bell and Brown decided they were bigger than the team.

Not sure who here has said that Ben is better than Brees, but their qb rating is pretty comparable over the years and Ben is certainly a top qb in the league.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/qbr/_/year/2015

Let’s not forget Tomlin’s excessive need to run a back into the ground until his wheels fall off like he did a few years ago and got rid of Blount who went to the Pats and played a big factor in them winning the Super Bowl...and don’t forget Touissant fumbling after he became the starting back due to Tomlin running the wheels off of Bell.

Let’s also not forget how lousy Tomlin’s clock management has been in key games, and his challenges have been almost humorous. He lost another one in the recent preseason game.

Let’s also not forget that Tim Tebow led the Broncos past them in the playoffs not long ago, yes Tim Tebow.

Tomlin has proven to have and has acquired many flaws, especially for a coach that uses the word “obviously” more than anyone I’ve ever heard.

Losing Shazier has been a big deal. Hopefully Bush is what he’s expected to be.

Conner fumbling isn’t a surprise. He’s not a top back and is often injured. If Tomlin runs him again like last year, the same things will likely happen.

Yep, kickers have off years, and sometimes the breaks go against you, and it’s hard to overcome them when you make bad decisions. Tomlin is a regular season coach and has proven that the last 9 years with only 2 playoff game wins, and also why he only received a 1 year extension.

Last edited by erieguy; 08-12-2019 at 10:56 PM..
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Old 08-13-2019, 02:01 PM
 
2,216 posts, read 3,084,961 times
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Speaking of running the wheels off, it's hard to top what Cowher did to Barry Foster. 390 carries in one year. He was never the same. Jerome got very heavy use as well. Tomlin was just honest about it with respect to Willie Parker. Connor fumbled in the opener, so it's hard to blame that on having the wheels run off. As for clock management, Tomlin is weak there, but watch the other coaches; I do, most are really horrible at it, including in college. I really think head coaches need to assign a trusted assistant to be in their ear with this, as head coaches frequently have so much on their plate late in a game that they stumble here. As for Bell, I'm not nearly as pissed at him as I am with AB. I don't blame him one bit for not wanting to play 2 years under the tag. That setup ensures that a running back will be past his prime when he finally hits free agency. This will be a major point of discussion when the next player contract comes up. This system is much fairer to players playing positions where you have longevity, such as qb. Kirk Cousins hit the market in his prime, Bell hits it past his prime. Total BS. That said, I didn't like the cat and mouse game Bell played last year. I'd have zero problems if he had stuck to his original statement that he wouldn't play a second year under the tag, and said it was a closed matter. The cat and mouse game he played became a distraction.
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Old 08-13-2019, 02:16 PM
 
Location: Downtown Cranberry Twp.
8,971 posts, read 5,553,283 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herodotus View Post
Speaking of running the wheels off, it's hard to top what Cowher did to Barry Foster. 390 carries in one year. He was never the same. Jerome got very heavy use as well. Tomlin was just honest about it with respect to Willie Parker. Connor fumbled in the opener, so it's hard to blame that on having the wheels run off. As for clock management, Tomlin is weak there, but watch the other coaches; I do, most are really horrible at it, including in college. I really think head coaches need to assign a trusted assistant to be in their ear with this, as head coaches frequently have so much on their plate late in a game that they stumble here. As for Bell, I'm not nearly as pissed at him as I am with AB. I don't blame him one bit for not wanting to play 2 years under the tag. That setup ensures that a running back will be past his prime when he finally hits free agency. This will be a major point of discussion when the next player contract comes up. This system is much fairer to players playing positions where you have longevity, such as qb. Kirk Cousins hit the market in his prime, Bell hits it past his prime. Total BS. That said, I didn't like the cat and mouse game Bell played last year. I'd have zero problems if he had stuck to his original statement that he wouldn't play a second year under the tag, and said it was a closed matter. The cat and mouse game he played became a distraction.
Except it has nothing to do with Cowher. Tomlin is the subject and he doesn’t manage his backs properly and they get hurt when they’re needed most. As much as I dislike the Patriots, it was great seeing Blount have an impact on helping win that particular SB.

Not that having your wheels run off has much to to with fumbling, and Conner had more fumbles in the time he played last year than Bell had all season prior.

Tomlin doesn’t want other coaches handling his clock management or his challenges. He simply won’t realize his weaknesses with both issues.

According to many NFL sources, both Bell and his agent didn’t know until later in the season about the supposed loophole that enabled him to get out of having to play last year. Also from some of those same sources, Bell’s teammates didn’t want him back, so they got their wish.
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Old 08-13-2019, 02:49 PM
 
Location: The Flagship City
2,443 posts, read 3,032,321 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herodotus View Post
The Saints, like the Steelers, still have the same coach, and a qb that pretty much everyone outside of Pittsburgh thinks is better than Ben (he is). Unlike the Steelers, the Saints actually had 3 losing seasons during this stretch, but having drafted better lately, are once again a serious contender. James Conner fumbled away 2 games.
The two above quotes stuck out to me and Ben may not be the best QB ever, but he has a specific style of play that has benefited the Steelers for over a decade. Ben is very elusive and when he is on he is one of the best quarterbacks to ever play the game. Some of Ben's best years were years when the Steelers had mediocre offensive lines and much less skill talent than he had last year on offense. Ben truly reminds me of John Elway and Brett Favre and I am fine with his gambles as they usually payoff. I hate GOAT discussions regarding NFL players because it is not the same game now that it used to be and Brees would have literally been carted off the field and retired if he played in the NFL prior to all of the QB "safety" rules. Ben is one of the few quarterbacks who has a style of play that transcends different eras of football. Tom Brady is the best quarterback of the recent NFL era, but I am not convinced he would be anywhere near as good during previous eras where players were allowed to punish quarterbacks. With all of that being said, Brees is a very impressive quarterback, I just don't like the comparison to Ben because it is a bad comparison. How would Brees have performed under Tomlin with a garbage offensive line and limited offensive creativity? Also, would Brees have any Super Bowl rings if he had to get past Brady and Belichick every year? The past decade and a half has been the Patriots dynasty and Ben has had the misfortune of having to play one of the greatest teams, quarterbacks, and coaches every year to get into or through the playoffs.

Secondly, you pointed out that Conner fumbled away two games, which largely ignores Ben's red zone interceptions last season and the fact that Conner was just unlucky. Also, most of Conner's fumbles were compounded by other mistakes such as missed field goals by Boswell. Bell and Conner fumbled at roughly the same rate over their last seasons, but Bell was lucky and many of his fumbles were recovered by the Steelers so they were viewed as non-issues. The Steelers were serious contenders last year as they beat the Patriots and nearly beat the Chargers and the Saints. Losing Shazier, Bell, and Bryant was simply too much to overcome with the other issues they had to overcome during the last season. The comibination of the Ben Red Zone Interceptions, the Conner unlucky fumbles, the AB drama, and the Boswell missed field goals and extra points was too much for the 2018 Steelers to overcome and they still almost made the playoffs. The Steelers are still contenders and to me the biggest questions for this season are the Steelers secondary and Boswell. I think the defense will be improved and I was really impressed with Bush. The offense should still be very strong and Washington looks lean, fast, and ready to have a breakout season. I alo like the running back group the Steelers have and I would love to see Samuels dominate the Patriots again.
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Old 08-13-2019, 02:51 PM
 
2,216 posts, read 3,084,961 times
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Originally Posted by erieguy View Post
Except it has nothing to do with Cowher. Tomlin is the subject and he doesnít manage his backs properly and they get hurt when theyíre needed most. As much as I dislike the Patriots, it was great seeing Blount have an impact on helping win that particular SB.

Not that having your wheels run off has much to to with fumbling, and Conner had more fumbles in the time he played last year than Bell had all season prior.

Tomlin doesnít want other coaches handling his clock management or his challenges. He simply wonít realize his weaknesses with both issues.

According to many NFL sources, both Bell and his agent didnít know until later in the season about the supposed loophole that enabled him to get out of having to play last year. Also from some of those same sources, Bellís teammates didnít want him back, so they got their wish.
It has a lot to do with Cowher because the same fans bitching about Tomlin running the wheels off never made a peep when Cowher did this his whole career. Four times in 12 seasons Tomlin has had a back get over 300 touches in a season. Under Cowher, it happened 8 times in 15 seasons. Willie Parker had his most touches in a season not under Tomlin, but under Bill Cowher. Yet the first word out of the mouths of the Tomlin critics is always "Cowher".
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Old 08-13-2019, 03:08 PM
 
Location: Downtown Cranberry Twp.
8,971 posts, read 5,553,283 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Herodotus View Post
It has a lot to do with Cowher because the same fans bitching about Tomlin running the wheels off never made a peep when Cowher did this his whole career. Four times in 12 seasons Tomlin has had a back get over 300 touches in a season. Under Cowher, it happened 8 times in 15 seasons. Willie Parker had his most touches in a season not under Tomlin, but under Bill Cowher. Yet the first word out of the mouths of the Tomlin critics is always "Cowher".
That’s just one of many of Tomlin’s flaws, but it’s a huge flaw that has played a large part in having no real backup after running the wheels off your Pro Bowl back...and Conner isn’t a Pro Bowl back. He’s a good back with a great story that unjustly got him into the Pro Bowl, and he can’t handle a big workload.

I’m a Tomlin critic because his flaws are “obviously” many, and the first word out of my mouth is never “Cowher”.

Unless Tomlin gets back to what got him the job to begin with, his arrogance will keep him from winning anything of significance.
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Old 08-13-2019, 03:50 PM
 
Location: Pixburgh
1,209 posts, read 1,168,402 times
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the main problem with your takes is you pass off half-stats, and opinion as facts.

conner had 4 fumbles in 13 games. not great. bell, who apparently is the high point to compare to, only had 3 the year before. but 2016 he had 4 in 12 games.. if you were sinciere with your critiques you would have not wanted him around in 2017.

and yes conner is a pro bowl back. I mean you can keep saying hes not, but i watched it last year. He was there. In fact he was a starter. So not exactly one of those classic forum debates where either side could be right.
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