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Old 08-13-2019, 07:49 PM
 
Location: Downtown Cranberry Twp.
8,871 posts, read 5,502,621 times
Reputation: 2063

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSlopes65 View Post
Ok, so let me jump back in here, after seeing posts from the law and order tribe, you know, 'do the crime pay the fine'...

In the original point I alluded to a scenario where someone had a circumstance in which it would be unjust to fine the person arbitrarily w/out a warning first. For example: Someone is ill or is temporarily incapacitated due to an injury. There has been a protracted period of heavy rains promoting rapid growth of grass in weeds. Prior to the period of incapacity, the person had begun work on the yard - conscientiously. While they are incapacitated and moreover, cannot afford to pay someone to tend to the yard, the police fine the person without issuing a warning. The person explains the situation to the police chief but the chief refuses to cancel the fine. The person can pay up or appear before the magistrate.

Is that the way we should want to be governed and policed? People complain about "Big Government" and being lorded over or tread upon by big gov't, but they tolerate being abused by their own municipalities - little (big) gov't, if you will!!!

These people are supposed to answer to us, the people, but we are supposed to roll over and submit to this kind of stuff...Really???
Again, a neighbor likely complained, and the person in charge of handling the situation likely had to do their job in giving the fine.

You’re obviously concerned, did you do anything to help the person out since they’re incapacitated and can’t afford to pay someone to tend to it?
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Old 08-14-2019, 07:55 AM
 
Location: Brookline
2,727 posts, read 2,067,448 times
Reputation: 3252
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSlopes65 View Post
Ok, so let me jump back in here, after seeing posts from the law and order tribe, you know, 'do the crime pay the fine'...

In the original point I alluded to a scenario where someone had a circumstance in which it would be unjust to fine the person arbitrarily w/out a warning first. For example: Someone is ill or is temporarily incapacitated due to an injury. There has been a protracted period of heavy rains promoting rapid growth of grass in weeds. Prior to the period of incapacity, the person had begun work on the yard - conscientiously. While they are incapacitated and moreover, cannot afford to pay someone to tend to the yard, the police fine the person without issuing a warning. The person explains the situation to the police chief but the chief refuses to cancel the fine. The person can pay up or appear before the magistrate.

Is that the way we should want to be governed and policed? People complain about "Big Government" and being lorded over or tread upon by big gov't, but they tolerate being abused by their own municipalities - little (big) gov't, if you will!!!

These people are supposed to answer to us, the people, but we are supposed to roll over and submit to this kind of stuff...Really???
I would say the amount of people that get fined and that fine is enforced by the magistrate in the above scenario is small, while the number of people that dont even attempt to maintain their yards is larger.
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Old 08-14-2019, 08:18 AM
 
Location: O'Hara Twp.
4,249 posts, read 6,063,487 times
Reputation: 1550
I would go to the council meeting. I would imagine if they are giving out that many citations there must be something that the borough is concerned about. Maybe there are really a ton of lawns that look awful or maybe the long lawns are a haven for rodents.



However, I am guessing that some old timers are pissed that Avalon isn't as nice as it was years ago.
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Old 08-14-2019, 08:51 AM
 
682 posts, read 214,386 times
Reputation: 1904
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSlopes65 View Post
I am curious as to whether it is customary for municipalities in the Pittsburgh area to fine people without issuing a warning first for issues such as high weeds and grass, for example. When no preliminary warning is issued, that puts a person in the position of having to pay up or be sent to the magistrate for something they might not have even known was a violation. This is really unjust, a violation of fair (due) process and arbitrary. They try to claim they are just trying to make sure people keep up their property landscaping and its not about the money but the lie in this is evidenced by their arbitrary manner of enforcement.


There is one municipality in the area that I know of first hand that is issuing so many tickets and slapping so many people with arbitrary fines that it amounts to a subversive form of taxation - mostly falling on the poor, disabled, elderly, etc. This particular community has a street sweeping schedule that is so aggressive that even someone in the public works department did not understand why they run this schedule so frequently. Many of the enormous stack of fines they are raking in are for parking/streets sweeping violations.


Guess which Route 65 community is running this racket?
What's aggressive about a twice weekly street cleaning schedule? (One side of the street one day; the other side the next.) It's not as if it's that difficult to move one's car to one side of the street to the other either the evening before street cleaning day(s) or prior to the posted times on the mornings of to avoid a ten dollar fine. No one is being "victimized" in this instance.

Full disclosure: I've lived off and on in Avalon as both a renter and a homeowner and have never had a problem with this supposedly overly aggressive street cleaning schedule save one ticket that an out-of-town visitor of mine received because I had forgotten to warn them about street cleaning day.

As far as lawns are concerned: mine occasionally has gotten out of control due to work, weather, and out-of-town obligations. Never have I or any of my immediate neighbors who have similarly out of control landscaping been fined by the borough.

There are also a decent number of elderly people living on my street. It's not uncommon for us to help one another out with lawn care--especially when it comes to the two bank-owned/absentee landlord properties on my street. Perhaps if you were truly concerned about this "racket" which targets the elderly, poor, and disabled, you'd pitch in to help. (If you already are doing so, thank you for being a good neighbor!)
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Old 08-14-2019, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Polish Hill, Pittsburgh, PA
30,351 posts, read 67,597,330 times
Reputation: 16046
Quote:
Originally Posted by Formerly Known As Twenty View Post
There are also a decent number of elderly people living on my street. It's not uncommon for us to help one another out with lawn care--especially when it comes to the two bank-owned/absentee landlord properties on my street. Perhaps if you were truly concerned about this "racket" which targets the elderly, poor, and disabled, you'd pitch in to help. (If you already are doing so, thank you for being a good neighbor!)
Wonderful paragraph!
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Old 08-14-2019, 10:15 AM
 
Location: Etna, PA
1,463 posts, read 878,832 times
Reputation: 1605
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wells5 View Post
The PA State Police never issue a driver a moving violation warning as state police/highway patrol do in many states. You violate the law, you get a ticket or a summons. It's a PA thing.
Not true.
I was doing 85 or 90 on the Turnpike approaching the bridge over the Allegheny River.
I got let off with a warning.
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Old 08-14-2019, 10:20 AM
 
Location: Polish Hill, Pittsburgh, PA
30,351 posts, read 67,597,330 times
Reputation: 16046
Quote:
Originally Posted by tyovan4 View Post
Not true.
I was doing 85 or 90 on the Turnpike approaching the bridge over the Allegheny River.
I got let off with a warning.
The officer must have found you attractive or something, then. I've always received tickets doing less over the speed limit. I will say having an "UBER" sticker on my windshield helped with my last ticket on I-99. The officer asked if I drove for UBER. I said yes. He said he would still stick me with the fine but NOT assess any points against my license so as not to interfere with my income. That was really nice of him.
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Old 08-14-2019, 10:45 AM
 
Location: Etna, PA
1,463 posts, read 878,832 times
Reputation: 1605
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelCityRising View Post
The officer must have found you attractive or something, then. I've always received tickets doing less over the speed limit. I will say having an "UBER" sticker on my windshield helped with my last ticket on I-99. The officer asked if I drove for UBER. I said yes. He said he would still stick me with the fine but NOT assess any points against my license so as not to interfere with my income. That was really nice of him.
I was in uniform as I was driving back to Pgh from National Guard duty in the midstate.
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Old Yesterday, 11:27 AM
 
5 posts, read 870 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by robrobrob View Post
I would go to the council meeting. I would imagine if they are giving out that many citations there must be something that the borough is concerned about. Maybe there are really a ton of lawns that look awful or maybe the long lawns are a haven for rodents.



However, I am guessing that some old timers are pissed that Avalon isn't as nice as it was years ago.


What they are concerned about is revenues. There are not tons of lawns in the borough of Avalon that look terrible. "Landscaping crimes" are a minority of the tickets, however, my point of contention is not so much about the ordinances themselves, but the enforcement that fines people right off without a warning. That is just wrong. Unless they are just plain ignorant low culture on the council, they know exactly what they are doing and that it isn't right.
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Old Yesterday, 01:37 PM
 
Location: Downtown Cranberry Twp.
8,871 posts, read 5,502,621 times
Reputation: 2063
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSlopes65 View Post
What they are concerned about is revenues. There are not tons of lawns in the borough of Avalon that look terrible. "Landscaping crimes" are a minority of the tickets, however, my point of contention is not so much about the ordinances themselves, but the enforcement that fines people right off without a warning. That is just wrong. Unless they are just plain ignorant low culture on the council, they know exactly what they are doing and that it isn't right.
Now that you know that the lawns need to be maintained there shouldn’t be any further issues.
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