If you could bring back a neighborhood/borough??? (Wilkinsburg, Lawrenceville: credit, how much)

[PreservationPioneer]

Penn Hills isn't bad. It seems like a lot of people live comfortably there. A lot of the homes are well-maintained. It's affordable. I've never felt unsafe in Penn Hills. It's spread out, so even if you get a bad neighbor, they aren't on top of you. I can see why people live there. It's kind of like buying a Chevy Malibu. It's not glam, but it gets the job done.

[screechingweasel]

I lived in Penn Hills briefly back in 2010. One afternoon that summer, a restaurant manager (I believe he worked at KFC) had his brains blown out as he was walking from the restaurant to the bank to make a deposit. I heard the shot. A few weeks later, two innocent guys from out-of-state were executed while sitting at a red light, as part of a gang initiation. At least that's what I recall hearing on the news. I heard those shots too. In fact, I heard a lot of gunshots while I lived in Penn Kills. Those two just happen to stick out in my mind for some reason.



My then-girlfriend and I lived in a rented 2-bedroom duplex. While it had been tastefully remodeled to contemporary standards (a rarity for rentals in this region), it wasn't what I'd call 'remarkable' by any means. Nevertheless we plopped down our $1,000.00/mo. and tried our best to be accepting of our new surroundings. After our neighbor (who was also a close relative of the fire chief) repeatedly broke into our place and stole underwear (and other unmentionables) from my girlfriend with ABSOLUTELY ZERO LEGAL REPERCUSSIONS FROM THE POLICEdespite the fact that we'd caught him repeatedly on hidden camera, we were finished with Penn Kills. Especially after we learned that the landlord had supplied our neighbor with a key to our place. Turns out our landlord had previously lived at the property, and the two of them were buddies. The creepiest part is that neither my girlfriend nor I ever had the pleasure of meeting our neighbor, as he'd always go inside when he saw us. Neither he nor his wife ever bothered to so much as make an attempt to introduce themselves to us. They gave us the cold shoulder from the very beginning. Those same last two sentences could be used to describe the rest of our neighbors, despite our initial attempts to break the ice with them.


Still though, even to this day, Penn Hills does have a very tiny place in my heart. My mother grew up there, and when I went to visit the area as a kid it had a neat, unique vibe to it. I still like all the little post-war homes. Some of those neighborhoods still ooze that 1950's innocence vibe swirled with an impending 'we could be vaporized at any moment' sense of cold war doom to this day, and I absolutely love it. Problem is, few (if any) people currently inhabiting that town feel the same way about that sort of thing. Even if some of them do, they don't act upon it. Penn Hills has undeniably been going down the toilet for quite a while now. It's not that I want to see Penn Hills continue to fail, or that I think the town itself (structurally speaking) isn't worth saving. It most certainly is. It's just that not enough people care to improve it. The same can be said for many other towns in this region. You may hate me for saying all of this, but I really don't care. If you're gonna spend so much of your time trying to talk up a metropolitan area on the internet, a little contrarianism to contend with now and then is actually healthy. Otherwise who are you gonna debate with? Yourself? That would be a little schizophrenic, now wouldn't it?

[screechingweasel]

Originally Posted by screechingweasel

That would be a little schizophrenic, now wouldn't it?

"Looks like you're the one who's a little schizophrenic, bud."



Sorry. Beat ya to it, yinzer.

[prnlvsxy]

New Ken

[svband76]

Originally Posted by gg

Wow. That town is wildly depressed, but I agree it is a treasure. You think big.

Perhaps, but this gem .. wow.. https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...-16256?view=qv

Depressed? East Liverpool, Ohio. Right over the border.

[gg]

Originally Posted by zalewskimm

Perhaps, but this gem .. wow.. https://www.realtor.com/realestatean...-16256?view=qv

Depressed? East Liverpool, Ohio. Right over the border.

That is one heck of a lot of home for that price, but it is on rt. 40 and right next to the fire hall.

I only drive through that town now and again on 40 and it makes me pretty sad. I

East Liverpool, OH? Is my coffee not kicking in? What does that have to do with Brownsville, PA?

[gg]

Originally Posted by prnlvsxy

New Ken

New Ken was pretty darn nice when I was a kid. Hearts Department store was really nice. Wow, that was a long time ago. Haven't been in that area much. Occasionally go to House of a 1,000 beers, P and M pizza and not even sure it is still there but would go to the Crow Bar for wings. Probably closed by now.

There was talk about getting a people train going there, but we all know that isn't going to happen with that compete idiot jerk that runs that RR line. He is truly a horrible human.

[SteelCityRising]

Reality check time:

The city proper's population is likely stagnant at the moment.
Allegheny County's population is likely increasing very slowly at the moment.
The MSA's overall population is likely stagnant or decreasing very slowly at the moment.

Can the same population over time support progressively more and more revitalized business districts replete with retailers and restaurants AS LONG AS that stagnant population has become wealthier over time, or will the revitalization of the business districts in the neighborhoods/communities we are rooting for just serve to CANNIBALIZE the success of currently stable/healthy business districts?

It's no secret the city overall has become much more affluent over the past decade in particular. Nevertheless it seems as if the more Downtown, the Strip, and Lawrenceville start to fill in and revitalize the South Side Flats is starting to wane. On a bigger scale I worry that revitalizing let's say Brownsville will mean that more people with means in the Mon Valley will start patronizing Brownsville's business district and spend less of their dollars in the business district in Monongahela, causing stress to merchants and restaurants there.

I appreciate that Escahton started this as more of a "pipe dream" thread, but could revitalizing all of these deserving communities and neighborhoods legitimately happen with progressively fewer (yet more educated and affluent) residents as the years go by? I just think there are TOO MANY business districts in this region to save them all, especially with the rise of online retail (brick-and-mortar shops struggling) and the rise of meal kit delivery services (restaurants becoming more competitive).

I ask this because I feel like Preservation Pioneer took a pot-shot at me with his one reply (I'm undoubtedly the "people" he referenced). As such I'm calling you out here as well. If Kittanning, New Kensington, Freeport, and Tarentum all commit to eliminating blight, reducing commercial vacancies in their business districts, etc. can all four of those communities be successful, or are the dollars up there so limited that one's boom will cause the other(s) to falter? There's obviously not enough money up your way to support Pittsburgh Mills, which is on its last legs.

I really think if our regional population is going to continue to decline (and with the demographics of lots of aging Baby Boomers + lots of educated childless Millennials + limited immigration + difficulty attracting in-migration that's VERY likely) then we need to look at our region's business districts as "survival of the fittest". Which ones should thrive? Which ones should die? We can't save them all unless someone can convince me that housing fewer (but wealthier) people over time can result in MORE businesses flourishing.

[USMC1984]

Originally Posted by PreservationPioneer

No. Gentrification and revitalization are different things. For instance, you can revive the Elizabeth business district, and restore housing, without making the area an exclusive enclave of the rich (gentrification). Neighborhoods in the urban core seem more at risk for gentrification than small towns or smaller industrial cities. Certainly, the concepts are related. By revitalizing a town or neighborhood, there is risk of gentrification.

LOL, good luck separating the two in reality...where there is profit to be made, the investors will flock to it.

[PreservationPioneer]

I never called anybody out in my post. I simply made a point about Freeport not being "hopeless," simply because it is far out. Some of these far flung towns are doing a lot better than places closer to the city, or in the city. Kittanning has its own thing going on, like the other county seats, and isn't a suburb. That's a good thing in my book. All of the county seats are doing okay. Tarentum needs a shot in the arm, but it's far from turning into Marshall-Shadeland or Woods Run. New Kensington is rough, but it's also the least historic of all the towns up that way. It was built up quite late.