Rudeness in Pittsburgh (attorney, best, pay)

[Katiana]

I'm saying when half a dozen people immediately disagree with a post in a very negative fashion, it feels like the "whole forum". It is not meant to be taken literally.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Katiana

I'm saying when half a dozen people immediately disagree with a post in a very negative fashion, it feels like the "whole forum".

I'm not sure what you mean by "in a very negative fashion". Anyone who disagrees with a post is likely going to be saying things which are critical of the substance of the post. And if a post draws a lot of criticism of its substance, I don't think that is necessarily a problem. Rather, it is only a problem if the criticism isn't of the substance of the post, but rather gets personal.

It is not meant to be taken literally.

I understand that, but it is still a bad idea. Again, you will tend to needlessly antagonize people when you generalize in this fashion, even if you did not intend to do so.

And to be frank, I don't see the value in this practice such that it should be a problem abandoning it. In other words, what purpose does it serve to lump together and then criticize the forum as a whole, as opposed to criticizing specific individuals? You are only diluting your criticism of the individuals you mean to criticize, and drawing in individuals you don't mean to criticize. So this seems to be a practice with only downsides, and no real upsides.

[londonbarcelona]

Originally Posted by Katiana

I have spent a lot of time thinking about this whole issue, not just of rudeness in Pittsburgh, but rudeness on this forum, which has also been addressed here, including in Brian's post that I have quoted here. I too, think there is no excuse for being incivil, which I have seen much more on this forum than on the others I frequent. I have posted several times that on Colorado, we seem to get along much better, even though we do not all agree all the time. We have a "sky is falling" person, we have liberals, conservatives, snow-boarders, engineers, you name it. Yes, we have people using sarcasm at times, and posts get deleted occasionally for rudeness, etc. The Pittsburgh forum is noted for people who cannot tolerate "constructive criticism" about lots of things. Many people have noted so. I know of no other forum on CD where people are constantly questioned about why they are even posting here. Colorado has several Californians that want to move there who post frequently, plus a couple from Wyoming, people who have lived there in the past, people whose relatives live there but they never did, etc. People don't come on and say "I don't know why you're here", or "you must get some psychological enjoyment from coming here when you haven't lived here for years . . . ". In fact, there is far less psycholanalysis in general. People don't make snide references "between the lines" telling others to leave, on any other forum I visit frequently. That includes Illinois, Indiana, Minnesota, Nebraska and some others.

I agree we should treat each other as individuals, but when a large number of people start going gangland, as londonbarcelona called it (I like that!), it seems like the whole forum is doing it. We went through that awful period last fall/winter with that troll who angered a lot of people, but he had his sympathizers who would bash others along with him. He sent nasty DMs, gave reps with nasty messages, etc. Yet still a lot of people supported him. It was awful. I think those of us who were his targets, and we were very carefully chosen, will not forget that soon and were left with a bad taste in our mouths. There will be some who say "why come over to Pittsburgh then?". Well, I'm from there and I enjoy talking about it. I don't understand why a few people should feel like they should be able to chase everyone they don't like away.

Thank you.

Even though everyone thinks I hate everything about Pittsburgh, I don't.
I would just like honest communication. In my opinion, it's OK to disagree. I disagree with people all the time on other forums, but I don't get attacked like I do here! How can anything ever be solved if people aren't open to constructive criticism and ideas? I'm not saying I'm always right, Lord knows, I'm not. I would hate to see Pittsburgh fall into the same dismal future that Buffalo has. Yet every time I try to suggest something different I get attacked.
Katiana lives in the west, she sees the difference. I am NOT trying to make Pittsburgh into a western city, I am just trying to voice things that have worked in other areas. (Not just the west.) But jeez you guys, it's hard for me not to get 'snarky' about things when it appears that discussing the current reality is not an option - especially with me. I honestly hope Pittsburgh does well, it would be great to show the rest of the nation that a Rustbelt city CAN progress, but these ridiculous arguments have to show some sort of reflection on the city.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by londonbarcelona

In my opinion, it's OK to disagree. . . . But jeez you guys, it's hard for me not to get 'snarky' about things when it appears that discussing the current reality is not an option - especially with me. I honestly hope Pittsburgh does well, it would be great to show the rest of the nation that a Rustbelt city CAN progress, but these ridiculous arguments have to show some sort of reflection on the city.

The nature of many disagreements is that people honestly disagree about how to describe the reality of a situation. So I do think it is a problem if you get "snarky" with people just because they dispute your description of reality, or similarly if you call arguments based on a different description of reality "ridiculous".

In other words, if it is OK for people to disagree with you, it really should be OK with you if people disagree. And if you are really OK with people disagreeing with you, then you shouldn't get snarky or ridicule their arguments.

[londonbarcelona]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

The nature of many disagreements is that people honestly disagree about how to describe the reality of a situation. So I do think it is a problem if you get "snarky" with people just because they dispute your description of reality, or similarly if you call arguments based on a different description of reality "ridiculous".

In other words, if it is OK for people to disagree with you, it really should be OK with you if people disagree. And if you are really OK with people disagreeing with you, then you shouldn't get snarky or ridicule their arguments.

Perfect example Brian, YOU used the word 'snarky' first to describe my comments. I love a great argument, but when it gets personal, I back off.

[Humanoid]

From my point of view the problem is that you can't post a negative comment without the same group of people immediately posting that "no no that isn't true". This immediately stops any sort of discussion on the matter for people that do think its true. People should be able to post a thread and have a discussion about things without fan boys annoying them.

Although my view of Pittsburgh is negative you don't see me infecting every post on this forum with negativity. I'm perfectly happy letting people talk about how much they love the city etc.

[GirlFromJersey]

I'm from New Jersey, I have dealt with my fair share of attitude, sass. snobbery, etc. and I'd have to agree that I've noticed a higher level of rudeness here.

It's not so much that people are outrightly rude, but if there's anything you don't agree on, their attitude changes immediately. If I tell people that my fiance and I are looking for houses in the northern suburbs, I get immediate attitude about why I don't want to stay close to the city and how all those places are full of rich and snobby people. When I inform people that I will probably move back to NJ or eastern PA after I graduate, (I'm a fashion major and there aren't many apparel companies headquartered here) I almost always get a laundry list of Pittsburgh's qualities. Yes, it's nice that there are plenty of museums and sights to see, but that's not going to make up for being jobless. It can sometimes feel like their itching for a fight.

And you know, I can almost understand it. I know what it's like to want to defend where you come from, to make people understand that it's not that bad, but when you're practically putting the other person down to make a point, it's not helpful anymore.

[Katiana]

You want some examples of "in a very negative fashion"? Look at these:

Originally Posted by suzeeq521

Of course LondonBarcelona thinks the customer service here is bad. She hates everything about Pittsburgh but still comes here to complain.


But there are just a few people here who do nothing but complain or run Pittsburgh down. I do not hesitate to call Pittsburgh out on the bad, but it isn't all bad.

As someone who has worked in the service industry for a long, long time, I can read my customers. And if someone came in with the attitudes that LondonBarcelona & Humanoid are carrying, I wouldn't give two shakes about them either. I never wasted my time on customers who had already made up their mind that I was inferior.

Trust me - that attitude that you think you and other cities are better does come through in the way you carry yourself.

Originally Posted by pghcleak

I'm so sorry that people in or around Pittsburgh were rude to you.

So rude, in fact, that you had to write about it to get it off of your chest, on a City Data forum.

These next two go together, as you can't quote a quote:

Originally Posted by Humanoid

I'm not particularly interested in the views of Pittsburgh cheerleaders, who attack any negative comment about Pittsburgh. Unfortunately one cannot have a real conversation about Pittsburgh on this forum.

Originally Posted by subdivisions

I see. Well, there's an easy solution to that problem, you know.

In other words, people who attack the person, suggest the person go away, and the like. And I really don't think you had to ask that question, I think you knew what I meant all along. This is the stuff londonbarcelona and I are saying doesn't happen as much (in my case by a factor of about 10 X less) on some of the other forums.

[blueeyes30]

As a somewhat frequent visitor to the Pittsburgh region, including the Tri-State (PA, OH, WV) here are my observations:

Drivers are relatively good, but pretty slow. Sometimes I wish people would atleast drive the speed limit, not 10 below. Driving too slow can be as nerving as everyone going too fast. On the city streets you see a little more meanness, but not any worse than most places. However, the same people who were dragging on the interstates will be on your tail once you exit off the road. Also people tend to ignore stop signs alot.

Customer service is pretty good overall, but remember I only spend a small amount of time each time I visit. Something I noticed though is that in other parts of the country, the cashier usually greets you and says "Thank you" at the end of the transaction. I noticed that less in the Pittsburgh region, but other than that, most experiences were pleasant.

This one really bugs me. I noticed this more in the outlying towns though. The way people stare at you when you are eating or just having a private conversation is kind of nerving. I thought people did that more in the South, but I noticed it with alot more frequency in the Pittsburgh area. I remember we (myself and some friends) went into a small grocery store outside of Connellsville and people wouldn't stop staring at us. Even when we drove around through the small towns, people did the same thing. We thought we were aliens or something.

But overall, it's a nice region. I liked the city of Pittsburgh and the surrounding suburbs more so than the areas south along I-79 and Route 40. There are a few quirks, just like anyplace in America.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by londonbarcelona

Perfect example Brian, YOU used the word 'snarky' first to describe my comments. I love a great argument, but when it gets personal, I back off.

I'm honestly not sure to what you are referring. I used the word "snarky" because you used it in your post.

In any event, I really am trying to provide you with constructive advice. Since it appears it isn't coming across that way, I will stop.