Pittsburgh; Llivable or Leavable? (California, Denver: theater, live in, restaurants)

[MaryBeth2]

Originally Posted by JoeLeaphorn

Well, you'd be wrong. I grew up in Ohio, in the shadows of Republic Steel and Cleveland, the Cuyahoga River fires, Higbee's and Halle's, went to school in Indiana, not too far from Hammond/Gary and lived in Chicago.

I also lived in DC, and New York, in the US, and spent summers in Philly.

Pittsburgh is a lot more Midwestern that it is Eastern.

PS. My favorite radio stations as a kid were WMMS in Cleveland and WLS (World's Largest Store) in Chicago. Sometimes I'd listen to WGN (World's Greatest Newspaper).

When we get up that way, I'm nominating you for Mayor.

[creepsinc]

Originally Posted by fleetiebelle

I shouldn't be stirring the pot, but I still contend that anyone who says that Pittsburgh is Midwestern is unfamiliar with the Midwest.

Pittsburgh, being where it is right on the line between the East and the Midwest, is always going to be contested. If the Midwest starts in Ohio, then the Midwest is about 45 miles from downtown Pittsburgh, and that's close enough to be "honorary Midwestern". The best way to settle the argument is to say it's Appalachian and be done with it.

[CortlandGirl79]

I think it's funny that many Northeast Ohioans consider themselves more eastern and Pittsburghers swear they aren't Midwestern............Northeast Ohio and Western Pa are very similar and i think we live in a gray area of Eastern/Midwestern overlap, so there!

[JoeLeaphorn]

Originally Posted by creepsinc

Pittsburgh, being where it is right on the line between the East and the Midwest, is always going to be contested. If the Midwest starts in Ohio, then the Midwest is about 45 miles from downtown Pittsburgh, and that's close enough to be "honorary Midwestern". The best way to settle the argument is to say it's Appalachian and be done with it.

When I refer to the Midwest what I am really referring to is not so much geography as regions linked by common economies. Pittsburgh, Gary, Buffalo, Cleveland and Youngstown were the key cities in the growth of the American steel industry and their fortunes and declines were linked.

Pittsburgh (Ohio River), Cleveland, Toledo, Detroit, Chicago and Milwaukee(Great Lakes) were also major intermodal ports which served the midwestern manufacturing industry both in terms of raw materials and finished product.

In 1961, French Geographer Jean Gottmann proposed that certain geographic areas in the United States could be considered megalopolises by virtue of their linked economies. The Boston-Washington corridor was one, and the other was a swath of the United States which was boardered, on the East, by Buffalo and Pittsburgh and to the West and North by Wisconsin and Illinois.

In July, 2005, The Metropolitan Institute at Virginia Tech (Census Report 05:01) noted that cultural geographers put Pittsburgh "squarely in the Midwest" and agreed with Gottmann's view that the Midwest megalaopolis began, in the East, in Pittsburgh and Buffalo.

The distinction is not without considerable merit from a public policy perspective. While many attribute the decline of manufacturing jobs in the Midwest to increased free trade, foreign competition, a high rate of taxation and favoritism towards unions in the Midwest, yet another group believes that the Midwest suffered, in part, because transportation were sufficiently low that suppliers did not need to be located close to manufacurers or consumers.

But that trend is reversing. Peak oil production is expected to hit around 2015 (some say that it already has). Once the world economy recovers, oil prices are going to rebound and probably never come down, again, as demand increases in the developing countries. Water is the least expensive way to transport materials followed by the railroads. Those parts of the country which have invested in improvements in their transportation infrastructure will, again, be competitive.

We will see a return to manufacturing in the US (we already have seen growth in our domestic steel industry) and those regions which offer the lowest overall cost will benefit from this return.

The Midwest Megalopolis needs to think of itself as a region and needs to focus on investments that benefit the region as a whole, not simply the needs of individual states.

[fleetiebelle]

Northeast Ohio and Western Pa are very similar

I don't disagree with this at all, it's just that to me, Northern Ohio, Western PA, Western NY aren't at all culturally, economically, or topographically similar to the flatter, more agricultural Midwestern areas.

[JoeLeaphorn]

Originally Posted by fleetiebelle

I don't disagree with this at all, it's just that to me, Northern Ohio, Western PA, Western NY aren't at all culturally, economically, or topographically similar to the flatter, more agricultural Midwestern areas.

Check out the report from the Metropolitan Institute at Virginia Tech. You might be surprised at how culturally and economically linked we all are.

[creepsinc]

Originally Posted by CortlandGirl79

I think it's funny that many Northeast Ohioans consider themselves more eastern and Pittsburghers swear they aren't Midwestern............Northeast Ohio and Western Pa are very similar and i think we live in a gray area of Eastern/Midwestern overlap, so there!

I agree.

[rubybelle]

Originally Posted by JoeLeaphorn

First of all, Pittsburgh is a very beautiful and affordable mid-Western city. There are vibrant neighborhoods, one of the largest system of public parks in the Country, and many amenities. It is especially good to raise a family here.

But the economy is in the toilet. The Governor cares little about Western PA (and, in fact, the declining population makes Western PA a lot less significant, politically, than Philadelphia which gets all the attention).

The legislature is too big (and corrupt) and the Democratic machinery controls everything (and I'm a registered Democrat) and is so well entrenched that the Allegheny County Chief Executive, who is politically a Republican (no new taxes, anti-union, small government), was convinced by his wife to switch to the Democratic Party when he told her of his ambitions for political office, because he'd have no chance as a Republican.

The fact that we have no serious competition for major political office in Western PA is the biggest drawback and the reason why the same old ideas get recycled over and over. Until our electorate stops voting the straight party ticket and puts some thought into who they are electing, there is no hope of change.

The school districts (there are way too many of them) have too much autonomy for good. School district property taxes are outrageous and that won't change anytime soon. As a result, those who have ambition at the County level are too scared to raise or change the tax structure because most people are paying too much already. County services are cut back as a result.

Economic development means a Walmart in your back door. Until recently, the County granted Tax Increment Financing status to almost any school district that requested with the result that municipalities cannibalized each other for business. Politicians attempted to capitalize on the dot-com boom by providing incentives for technology developers to locate here but even these jobs are disppearing (Seagate, which operated a research site, here, is closing the doors in June along with the elimination of 159 jobs).

Pittsburgh has been trying to attract more young people here but young people want a political dialogue, not blind ambition, to guide public policy. Unfortunately, each time we experience some competition in politics, we either end up with morons like ex County commissioners Dunn and Cranmer, or cowards like Jim Roddey who didn't want to do the right thing (introduce parity into the property tax market), because it would have offended his affluent political base.

Currently, property taxes are indexed to the 2002 assessment. Unfortunately, this means that people who bought homes in affluent areas are paying proportionally less than people in older, established areas where values are stable or depressed. A friend of mine just purchased a home in Sewickley for $600,000 but the County assesses it at just over $200,000 because that was the value at the last assessment.

Our infrastructure is aging because the politicians want to build roads (and bridges that they can name after themselves), rather than improve public transportation, which is sorely needed. Most people who drive to/from the city do so because there are no viable alternatives.

All of this might seem like I am down on the region but I am not. Pittsburgh and the surrounding counties are real gems in the rough. But what we need, here, is a new way of doing business and we won't get it with our current political system. We're not Chicago and we can't survive with one party rule (and no effect opposition).

So come here. But run for office (in Allegheny County you start at the municipal or school board level and move up).

And do the right thing. It would be refreshing.

I agree with just about everything you said, especially about it being a great place to raise a family. I'm ready to leave now, but my kids had a great time growing up here. There was always something to do.

[pittsteelerfan]

I disagree. The attitudes of the people in Pittsburgh are alot different than those cities west of it, Chicago being one. To this day, I still don't understand how the 'city' people of Philly are much different than the 'city' people of Pittsburgh. I just never seen or felt it, other than the people of Philly being nastier.

One thing I will say though, you don't have to travel far out of the 'city' limits of Pittsburgh, before the stero-types of the "red necks" kick in. But that can be said for alot of cities. Drive 40 miles out of Philly, and see how 'cosmopolitan' the people you come across are.

If I thought Pittsburgh was Mid-western, I'd say it. But I honestly never felt it or seen it. And I've lived on the east coast and the midwest. For one thing, the average Pittsburgh'er will speak their minds and not beat around the bush like a 'typical' midwestern'er would. To me, that's an "eastern" trait. I also think the average Pittsburgh'er looks or thinks more about NYC than Chicago. Where someone in the midwest would look or think of Chicago more than NYC.

Some people from Pittsburgh, were born an raised in the city, as where their parents, and grandparents etc. They'll act and talk alot different, than someone who maybe moved to Pittsburgh from Mars, Pa., or commutes in for work everyday. A perfect example of this would be NYC. You think someone who was born an raised in Mannhattan, will act and talk like someone who was born and raised in Brooklyn? For anyone who knows the difference, you know they can be night and day. Not everyone from NYC is as cosmopolitan or open minded as is sometimes thought. I've met alot of very narrow minded, predudice, provincal types in NYC also.

Look at some of the famous people from the Burgh. Does Micheal Keaton or Dennis Miller really make you think of a midwestern'er? Their humor is way different than the midwestern style. Chris Farley and Dan Aknord (spelling?) put me in the mind of midwest humor, along with John Candy (ya I know they're Canadian), but you get my point.

Not to mention, there's alot of Catholics in Pittsburgh, correct me if I'm wrong, another "eastern" trait. How about the music back in the day, Doo Wop? Again, more "eastern" than midwestern. I always felt a high Italian presence when in Pittsburgh, start heading west of the Burgh and that will drop off. I never felt any Italian presence in Chicago, believe it or not (not saying they don't exist there, but you just don't feel it).

[Katiana]

Originally Posted by pittsteelerfan

Not to mention, there's alot of Catholics in Pittsburgh, correct me if I'm wrong, another "eastern" trait. How about the music back in the day, Doo Wop? Again, more "eastern" than midwestern. I always felt a high Italian presence when in Pittsburgh, start heading west of the Burgh and that will drop off. I never felt any Italian presence in Chicago, believe it or not (not saying they don't exist there, but you just don't feel it).

OK, I'll correct you. Chicago, Milwaukee, Minneapolis, St. Louis and Omaha all have large Catholic populations, also, I believe Detroit. No Italian presence in Chicago? Ever heard of Al Capone? Actually, there is a large Italian presence in Denver.

http://www.valpo.edu/geomet/pics/geo...n/catholic.gif