Why is Pittsburgh losing population even though it's economy has been transformed? (California: rentals, homes)

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Humanoid

The main issue here is home ownership, the typical American is attached to the idea regardless of whatever it makes sense or not.

It is one of the main issues, probably the single most important issue, but not the only important issue overall. For example, commute times are an important issue for many people, and increasingly so are the costs of commuting. The costs of education are also a major factor for people with families. And so on.

Once the housing market continues to collapse in better areas, people will be less motivated to stay in the Pittsburgh area.

We'll have to wait and see if housing does in fact return to the sort of differentials that existed a decade ago, because it has not happened yet.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

It is one of the main issues, but not the only important issue. For example, commute times are an important issue for many people, and increasingly so are the costs of commuting. The costs of education are also a major factor for people with families. And so on.

We'll have to wait and see if housing does in fact return to the sort of differentials that existed a decade ago, because it has not happened yet.

Re: cost of education: Pitt and Penn State have very high tuitions for in-state students, around $10K/yr. The Univeristy of Colorado just raised its tuition for next year's Arts and Sciences students to $5900/yr. So I don't know as that is such a draw.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Katiana

Re: cost of education: Pitt and Penn State have very high tuitions for in-state students, around $10K/yr. The Univeristy of Colorado just raised its tuition for next year's Arts and Sciences students to $5900/yr. So I don't know as that is such a draw.

I was actually thinking of primary and secondary schools more than college. In some of the places we looked, to get decent public schools you had to pay a large premium for housing, and the private school day tuitions were considerably higher than in Pittsburgh.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I was actually thinking of primary and secondary schools more than college. In some of the places we looked, to get decent public schools you had to pay a large premium for housing, and the private school day tuitions were considerably higher than in Pittsburgh.

Well, since you have a two year old and I have college students, our perspectives are different. Newsweek just put out this list, and while I tend to think such stuff is a bunch of hooey, a couple of these "best" high schools are in the city of Denver, in not so pricey neighborhoods (particularly George Washington HS), and suburbs that are considered very middle class such as Lakewood, Aurora, and Broomfield. I do acknowledge the higher cost of housing overall here.

America's Top Public High Schools | Newsweek Best High Schools | Newsweek.com

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Katiana

Well, since you have a two year old and I have college students, our perspectives are different.

Indeed. But given the differentials we were looking at, the total extra bill for the thirteen years K-12 (either in the form of the mortgage on the housing premium or the extra amount for private schools) would dwarf the total difference over 4-5 years of college, and at least in our case we probably wouldn't want to limit our children to choosing among the local public universities (not that I think there is anything wrong with that--it just wouldn't be our choice).

Newsweek just put out this list, and while I tend to think such stuff is a bunch of hooey, a couple of these "best" high schools are in the city of Denver, in not so pricey neighborhoods (particularly George Washington HS), and suburbs that are considered very middle class such as Lakewood, Aurora, and Broomfield. I do acknowledge the higher cost of housing overall here.

We never got as far in your area as looking at schools (as I have mentioned before, we only did a brief survey of housing prices in Boulder). That said, I should note that for most of this discussion I have been contrasting post-industrial interior cities with expensive coastal cities. Denver of course doesn't really fit into either of those categories, and indeed my sense during our brief look was that while it would have been more expensive for us to live there, it would not be nearly as much more expensive as some of the other places we looked.

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

Indeed. But given the differentials we were looking at, the total extra bill for the thirteen years K-12 (either in the form of the mortgage on the housing premium or the extra amount for private schools) would dwarf the total difference over 4-5 years of college, and at least in our case we probably wouldn't want to limit our children to choosing among the local public universities (not that I think there is anything wrong with that--it just wouldn't be our choice).

It wasn't our choice, either, and our older daughter went to a private college in Minnesota. The younger one started at a pvt college in Indiana but came back to Colorado to finish the last 2 yrs. The older one came back for grad school. So you don't know where the kid(s) will WANT to go.

We never got as far in your area as looking at schools (as I have mentioned before, we only did a brief survey of housing prices in Boulder). That said, I should note that for most of this discussion I have been contrasting post-industrial interior cities with expensive coastal cities. Denver of course doesn't really fit into either of those categories, and indeed my sense during our brief look was that while it would have been more expensive for us to live there, it would not be nearly as much more expensive as some of the other places we looked.

I agree with that assessment.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by Katiana

It wasn't our choice, either, and our older daughter went to a private college in Minnesota. The younger one started at a pvt college in Indiana but came back to Colorado to finish the last 2 yrs. The older one came back for grad school. So you don't know where the kid(s) will WANT to go.

Yep, our plan is just to let the kid(s) decide, and hope we have planned well enough to be able to afford whatever they choose. I might also note that I think many public universities are an incredible value (including Colorado) so I would have absolutely no problem if our kid(s) decided to go that direction.

[pghcleak]

Originally Posted by Katiana

It's an open forum. We are all entitiled to our opinions.

Yep, exactly why I expressed mine

[Humanoid]

Perhaps not on this forum, but in real life, yes.

I'm not even particularly social and I knew plenty of people that disliked the city....and they were all in academia. But most people will not tell someone who likes X than X sucks. Even I don't do such things with people I have to deal with often.

For example, commute times are an important issue for many people, and increasingly so are the costs of commuting. The costs of education are also a major factor for people with families. And so on.

1.) Pittsburgh doesn't have anything special to over commuters above and beyond other cities, 2.) Pittsburgh's education isn't any cheaper than other areas once you take into consideration pay differences.

because it has not happened yet.

I suppose if you live under a rock. Prices are declining dramatically in fact in most areas around half of the last 5-6 years of appreciation is gone. So the price situation has already improved dramatically.

Still can't understand why people who left don't move on.

Many of the people that most here don't live in the city, I suggest you let them know they should move on. But I'm still pretty attached to the city, so its not very odd that I'm here posting about it.

[Smily Gladshanks]

As a grad student in that same demographic, I also have talked to ~100 students who are staying, want to stay but also want to explore, or who want to stay but can't. As a city goes, it's quite good on many levels. Many of the, at least older, students recognize that. I find few people who dislike Pittsburgh. I say few because there must be some, but I can't remember one.

Kids fighting to grow up and people who don't like traffic don't count, really. Presumably, they'll move from any city.