Why is Pittsburgh losing population even though it's economy has been transformed? (Harrisburg: real estate)

[MissShona]

Growing up here (left and came back), I felt that the atmosphere was just so stifling in SW Pennsylvania. The mentality, the way that things were done, the relationship we have with those outside the region. I heard the talk about the economy changing...sure. But for the bulk of us in the region whose families were dependent on the steel mills and skilled labor jobs that just sort of vanished...the attitudes was just being jaded and bitter (hope I'm not seen as 'elitist' for saying that).

When it came time for college, I opted to leave out of the area. PA state schools are not that much cheaper (although I will attest financial aid has improved in 10 years...my sister is in college in-state and my academics were much stronger...yet she was able to get more money). First I went to college in FL....then in WV. Let me say, FL has a lot of problems...but they have a good deal when it comes to college. They have a pre-paid plan like PA does...but if you graduate from any public high school with a 3.5 GPA, they will waive your tuition at any state school (called the Florida Bright Futures Program). The in-state tuition in FL is $92/credit hour (only $10 more than CCAC) with the variance being in fees (i.e. University of Florida will have more fees than University of South Florida in general). That puts college into reach for most FL families...which is not the case in PA. True FL has more money in it's coffers than PA though...

I'm glad I went out of state for my education however (I wasn't alone...even my school in FL had a hefty number of PA students). I got exposure to different mindsets...experiences...programs. Met many more immigrants (I come from an immigrant family myself....we were such a rarity here). Most of all I found appreciation that there were not as many stereotypes that I was forced into (like here).

My life situation has brought me back here. Now I really appreciate Pittsburgh and don't care too much about the various norms and expectations many SW Pennsylvanians have. I have a totally different outlook towards the region...because while there are a lot of older people here, the time is ripe for young people to really take hold of opportunities and make a difference. Look at John Fetterman...mayor of Braddock...or Justin Strong...co-owner of the Shadow Lounge and founder of the 7th Movement...just tons of young people doing what they love or see is important. And they can do it because you do not need tons of money or a particular brand of politics (I've seen a whole lot of Republicans out and about in Pittsburgh...despite the Democrat aura of the area) or a particular look. It's competitive...in that everyone has a college degree here...and you deal with narrow-mindedness all the time. Other than that, Pittsburgh is a very forgiving place to try to "make it".

Many people like myself have just moved away and stayed away. Again, I really don't regret my decision to leave...so I do not blame them. But people are coming in...and coming back. The word of Pittsburgh's revitalization has not gotten out (personally...I feel Pittsburgh should step up to plate regarding that...I mean I've seen TV ads about moving to Harrisburg...jeez). But I think it will....especially with the struggling economy. I just hope these new Pittsburghers are more mobile; that they get out more...travel more than the Pittsburgher of old. I think that will really help things!

[right-here-i-say]

Pittsburgh is a much better place to live if you choose to live here. If you are born here and never leave, you may not appreciate it as much as somebody who lived in another area, or somebody who was born here, left, and came back.

[The_soul_controlla]

Because there's nothing to do for anybody from the ages of 23-35. And those are the ages that people are looking to have a career, make some money, find a significant others and enjoy themselves.


As someone who's been trying to contribute to the history of the music and arts scenes in Pittsburgh, it's frustrating how little people support the arts and how many people support mindless activities like Penguins and Steelers games. I understand that people love sports and that makes the city some money, but if this is one of the major benchmarks of the Pittsburgh economy, then it's safe to say that the economy of Pittsburgh really hasn't matured from the post-industrial days to even retain a steady population of young wage/salary earners. And sadly, I think that it probably won't mature and that it's steadily heading on a downhill spiral. Even if it took 100 years to fully revive the economy, Pittsburgh will never be on the level of bigger U.S. cities like LA, NYC, SF, Chicago, or even Atlanta. The city really just made a bad move with PNC and Heinz field, and once the casinos get built here, you can stick a fork in this city and officially call it done.


Sometime I walk around the city, see downtown shut down to zero people around 8:00, all the potholes, all the places falling apart, all of the corporate businesses coming in and the lack of independent business coming in, think of all the places that have been closed and it makes me think I'm really looking at a dying American city. I've lived here all my life and even though I'm in my twenties now, I see how Pittsburgh has changed dramatically from the 90's to now. There's more people moving out of this city than actually coming in.

I'm just happy I'll be moving out before this city becomes a complete bust.

[ExPit]

It might be a question for the miserable and more miserable, but how do you think Pittsburgh compares, in all relevant categories, to other rust belt cities like Cleveland, Buffalo, and Detroit. My opinion is it is a little better off largely due to the philanthropy of industrialists that "endowed" the city of its great learning institutions. What does everyone think? Can a once great city be a great city again, if it finds another bloodline? Education, medicine, high-tech, alternate energy development, any other possible strengths to be exploited?

[Katiana]

Originally Posted by ExPit

It might be a question for the miserable and more miserable, but how do you think Pittsburgh compares, in all relevant categories, to other rust belt cities like Cleveland, Buffalo, and Detroit. My opinion is it is a little better off largely due to the philanthropy of industrialists that "endowed" the city of its great learning institutions. What does everyone think? Can a once great city be a great city again, if it finds another bloodline? Education, medicine, high-tech, alternate energy development, any other possible strengths to be exploited?

Don't know much about Detroit or Buffalo, but Cleveland has Case Western Uninversity, which was founded in part by a private philanthropist. I think theis is actually quite common in many cities.

[BrianTH]

I would agree it is unlikely Pittsburgh will become a top 10 city again (by population) in the near future, but I personally have no problem with that. Indeed, I don't really think that the population growth necessary for Pittsburgh to become a top 10 city again would be a worthwhile goal, because such rapid population growth is not necessarily conducive to an improving quality of life for the existing residents. Generally, I think this tends to be one of the big differences between people born here and people (like me) who chose to come here--us new people tend not to think of Pittsburgh's future in terms of restoring its past, but rather in terms of a different sort of Pittsburgh, one which is already emerging.

By the way, I'm originally from Detroit, and my Dad still lives there. That is a city with really deep problems, and Pittsburgh is in far, far better shape, and has a much more promising future, in comparison.

Edit: Oh, and I think a diversified knowledge-based economy is the way to go (and indeed the way the regional economy is going). In addition to education, medicine, and high tech fields, I'd mention business services (financial, legal, and so on), along with some arts.

[The_soul_controlla]

Originally Posted by BrianTH

I would agree it is unlikely Pittsburgh will become a top 10 city again (by population) in the near future, but I personally have no problem with that. Indeed, I don't really think that the population growth necessary for Pittsburgh to become a top 10 city again would be a worthwhile goal, because such rapid population growth is not necessarily conducive to an improving quality of life for the existing residents. Generally, I think this tends to be one of the big differences between people born here and people (like me) who chose to come here--us new people tend not to think of Pittsburgh's future in terms of restoring its past, but rather in terms of a different sort of Pittsburgh, one which is already emerging.

By the way, I'm originally from Detroit, and my Dad still lives there. That is a city with really deep problems, and Pittsburgh is in far, far better shape, and has a much more promising future, in comparison.

Edit: Oh, and I think a diversified knowledge-based economy is the way to go (and indeed the way the regional economy is going). In addition to education, medicine, and high tech fields, I'd mention business services (financial, legal, and so on), along with some arts.

There are more lawyers per capita in Pittsburgh than any other city in the U.S. IMO

Pittsburgh used to be a major corporate based city (it used to be NY, Phila, and Pittsburgh in the top three) but I don't know what happened.

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by The_soul_controlla

Pittsburgh used to be a major corporate based city (it used to be NY, Phila, and Pittsburgh in the top three) but I don't know what happened.

Pittsburgh still has a lot of corporate headquarters for a city of its current size. But generally, the whole U.S. (and indeed whole world) economy is going through an ongoing consolidation process, so there are in effect fewer corporate headquarters to go around. But conversely, I think that also matters less as corporations increasingly go outside the firm for various services, meaning a lot of the high value jobs supported by a given corporation are no longer actually within the corporation itself.

[WoodturnerMike]

Actually Pittsburgh hit it's peak population of 676,000 in 1950 and slowly declined from there. Initially, that is to say for several decades Pittsburgh's population declined while the population outside of the city but still within Allegheny County increased. However in the 80's the county population began declining as well.

Many left to seek employment in the sunbelt.

I lived for many years in Pittsburgh and really like the city but moved in '02 to Cape May NJ. The reason, because we vacationed in Cape May and just loved it there. Now because of the taxes (highest real estate taxes in the nation) and high cost of living in NJ we're planning a move back to Pa. but somewhere in the rural southcentral part of the state. Not because of any dislike of Pittsburgh but because we really like the semi-rural areas near Harrisburg.

Pittsburgh needs to revitalize the downtown area and make better use of the rivers and land bordering them which could be a recreational goldmine.

Great city that survived the end of it's manufacturing era and is reinventing itself.

Mike

[BrianTH]

Originally Posted by WoodturnerMike

Actually Pittsburgh hit it's peak population of 676,000 in 1950 and slowly declined from there. Initially, that is to say for several decades Pittsburgh's population declined while the population outside of the city but still within Allegheny County increased. However in the 80's the county population began declining as well.

Indeed, and the first part of that was more or less just the same general exodus from city centers to the suburbs as a result of the rise of car culture (and as seen in many U.S. cities at the time). The later and much sharper population drop over the entire region was the result of the dramatic contraction of the local manufacturing sector (most notably the steel industry), which peaked in the early 1980s. Of course other industrial cities went through something similar, but Pittsburgh had a particularly intense period of economic contraction and population loss (thanks to its large dependence on the steel industry).

Pittsburgh needs to revitalize the downtown area and make better use of the rivers and land bordering them which could be a recreational goldmine.

I agree, and fortunately the redevelopment of the South Side and "North Shore" have gone quite well, and meanwhile the Downtown residential spaces have very high occupancy rates, with more coming in the pipeline.