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Old 06-07-2008, 11:15 PM
 
939 posts, read 1,537,146 times
Reputation: 499
This conversation is confusing as I have no idea what we're disputing. Let's try it like this.

1.)The Pittsburgh region is big.

2.)There a many different areas within the region.

3.)These different areas are not the same.

4.)Some areas are more segregated...some areas are less segregated.

5.) Certain East End neighborhoods, certain North Side neighborhoods, and much of the Eastern Suburbs seem reasonable integrated to me.


OK, now you can tell me what you disagree with...As an example..."Hi zip95, I think number 3 is wrong".
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Old 06-08-2008, 12:24 AM
 
353 posts, read 536,322 times
Reputation: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by zip95 View Post
This conversation is confusing as I have no idea what we're disputing. Let's try it like this.

1.)The Pittsburgh region is big.

2.)There a many different areas within the region.

3.)These different areas are not the same.

4.)Some areas are more segregated...some areas are less segregated.

5.) Certain East End neighborhoods, certain North Side neighborhoods, and much of the Eastern Suburbs seem reasonable integrated to me.


OK, now you can tell me what you disagree with...As an example..."Hi zip95, I think number 3 is wrong".
I disagree that segregation doesn't effect the entire region. Granted, there are a handful of neighborhoods and boroughs that are as integrated as one should expect, however, those are vastly outweighed by the over-whelming majority of areas which are basically either almost entirely black, or or have almost no black people in them.

To simply drawout a handful of small areas and say "oh well, different places are different" ignores the much, much larger reality of the situation.

Sure, Churchill is kinda close to the county average, but Churchill has, what 9% Black population for all of 3,500 people living there, whereas Wilkinsburg has 16,000 people, the over-whelming majority of whom are black. And to simply glance at stats and say, "well, Penn Hills is integrated" ignores the fact that most of the minority population in Penn Hills are located either in small black enclaves, or are basically an extension of areas like Wilkinsburg and Homewood.

You can trot out a few examples of integrated communities, but come on... to simply look at the few communities that are near the averages and say "well, aren't we all so wonderfully diverse" and shake hands is either blind or naive, or both.

Look at The Hill. Look at Homewood and East Liberty. Look at Wilkinsburg. Look at the Mon Valley. And then look at all the places where there are almost no Black folks to speak of.

That's the story. Not the couple of small places where you have "integration".
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Old 06-08-2008, 01:26 AM
 
20,274 posts, read 17,375,510 times
Reputation: 2803
Quote:
Originally Posted by Humanoid View Post
Reviews of Fajita grill are pretty bad, but Mexico city seems to get pretty good reviews (here I have in mind customer reviews on sites like yelp).
Consumer reviews of Fajita Grill are mixed. Here is a sampling of places with reviews (including yelp), and I will let interested people judge for themselves whether it sounds worth a try:

Fajita Grill - Pittsburgh, PA 15232 - Reviews: Mexican Restaurants
Fajita Grill User Reviews - Pittsburgh, PA 15232-1739 - Citysearch
Fajita Grill the - Pittsburgh, PA

Edit: By the way, I agree with some of the more negative reviews to the extent that despite the name, the fajitas are probably the least interesting part of their menu.

Last edited by BrianTH; 06-08-2008 at 01:42 AM..
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Old 06-08-2008, 01:36 AM
 
20,274 posts, read 17,375,510 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humanoid View Post
You know the focus on whether something is "authentic" or not isn't very important.
I agree in the general sense that restaurants need not be "authentic" to be good, and indeed would suggest the best chefs these days tend to borrow freely from multiple cuisines. But juliegt asked specifically about "real Mexican", so that is why we were discussing that particular topic.
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Old 06-08-2008, 04:51 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles Area
3,306 posts, read 1,196,802 times
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Quote:
You can trot out a few examples of integrated communities,
Even the integrated communities aren't very integrated. Citing stats about the number of blacks and whites are in a particular area says nothing about integration in any sort of meaningful way. For example an area can be 30% black, but if the dividing line between black vs white is clearly defined in the area then that is hardly integration.

Anyhow, this issue has been talked about a few times and it goes no where because there really is no measure of "racial integration" anybody can cite. It just ends up being a discussion about how our perceptions of the area differ. I can say though, one thing is always lacking in these conversations - the perceptive of non-white folks. Its always a bunch of whities talking about it...which is a bit funny.

Quote:
But juliegt asked specifically about "real Mexican", so that is why we were discussing that particular topic.
Right and to that I suggest she learns how to cook Mexican food. From what I can tell she is use to eating the more coastal styles of Mexican food which is truly lacking in Pittsburgh.
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Old 06-08-2008, 06:33 AM
 
939 posts, read 1,537,146 times
Reputation: 499
Quote:
Originally Posted by Humanoid View Post
I can say though, one thing is always lacking in these conversations - the perceptive of non-white folks. Its always a bunch of whities talking about it...which is a bit funny.
What I find a bit funny is your ability to divine peoples races through your computer...I'd love to hear how you arrive at the conclusion that this discussion is a "bunch of whities".
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Old 06-08-2008, 07:48 AM
 
939 posts, read 1,537,146 times
Reputation: 499
Quote:
Originally Posted by supersoulty View Post
I disagree that segregation doesn't effect the entire region.
Quote:
Originally Posted by supersoulty View Post
Granted, there are a handful of neighborhoods and boroughs that are as integrated as one should expect.
You realize that these two statements are contradictory? They can not both be correct at the same time....You have to decide, either the entire region is segregated or it isn't.

There are plenty of mixed neighborhoods, school districts, work places, and shopping places. Just like there are plenty of segregated areas like the South Hills, or the black ghettos, or the white ghettos, etc....Pittsburgh is a big place.

It's easy to settle this issue, just get in you car and drive through certain North Side or certain East End neighborhoods, or many Eastern suburbs. Just go look
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Old 06-08-2008, 09:27 AM
 
353 posts, read 536,322 times
Reputation: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by zip95 View Post
You realize that these two statements are contradictory? They can not both be correct at the same time....You have to decide, either the entire region is segregated or it isn't.

There are plenty of mixed neighborhoods, school districts, work places, and shopping places. Just like there are plenty of segregated areas like the South Hills, or the black ghettos, or the white ghettos, etc....Pittsburgh is a big place.

It's easy to settle this issue, just get in you car and drive through certain North Side or certain East End neighborhoods, or many Eastern suburbs. Just go look
How is it contradictory?


We aren't talking about states here. We are talking about small towns. What does it matter if Churchill, pop. 3,500, has a "well-integrated" population that still has 1/3 less black folks as you would expect, if it is located right next to two larger places that don't? You are allowing boundaries - lines on a map - to obscure the larger reality, which is that an most of the blacks in the county are concentrated in the same areas. The few places that are integrated are vastly out-weighed by the rest of the county, which clearly is not. And this has an effect on attitudes, incomes, schools, etc... everywhere. To pretend otherwise is disingenuous in the extreme.
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Old 06-08-2008, 09:46 AM
Status: "Corn well over knee high!" (set 20 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
67,522 posts, read 55,342,978 times
Reputation: 18819
I agree with supersoulty and that is why I posted those stats. I am fully aware that they don't tell the whole story, but I do think they tell us that the eastern burbs aren't all *that* integrated. I do not know if they are among the most integrated in the eastern US, as zip95 asserted. I recall very few minorities in the suburb of Albany, NY where I lived in the late 80s. I didn't have kids in school then to get a handle on the school population (ususally a good indicator), but the faces in the grocery stores, the churches, the malls, etc, were mostly white. We had a couple of Asian Indian families on our street, and the previous owner of our house was AI.
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Old 06-08-2008, 10:55 AM
 
Location: Philly
8,617 posts, read 6,824,022 times
Reputation: 1956
hispanics are often of mixed race. are people of mixed race treated differently in the city of pittsburgh? do people assume they are going to steal when they walk into a store? do you see discrimination at the office? hispanics of mixed race, can experience racism from both blacks and whites.
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