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Old 06-08-2008, 05:10 PM
 
353 posts, read 546,974 times
Reputation: 79
And, BTW... as a graduate student who has the opportunity to spend a lot of time talking to people who move here from other parts of the country, I can tell you that almost everyone I talk to who comes here thinks that Pittsburgh is one of the most segregated cities in they have ever been to. I don't know if you are taking this personally or what, but I assure you, I'm not attacking the city. Facts are facts.
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Old 06-08-2008, 05:21 PM
 
20,274 posts, read 17,922,507 times
Reputation: 2820
Just my two cents in summary form:

Is the Pittsburgh region overall well-integrated? No.

Are there some areas within the Pittsburgh region that are reasonably well-integrated? Yes.

Is identifying the reasonably well-integrated areas within the Pittsburgh region deceptive? No, provided you don't claim they are a representative sample of the region.

Is it pointless? No, because circumstances in their immediate neighborhood can matter to people, so breaking this sort of discussion down to the local level can be useful.
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Old 06-08-2008, 05:54 PM
 
956 posts, read 1,577,212 times
Reputation: 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianTH View Post
Just my two cents in summary form:

Is the Pittsburgh region overall well-integrated? No.

Are there some areas within the Pittsburgh region that are reasonably well-integrated? Yes.

Is identifying the reasonably well-integrated areas within the Pittsburgh region deceptive? No, provided you don't claim they are a representative sample of the region.

Is it pointless? No, because circumstances in their immediate neighborhood can matter to people, so breaking this sort of discussion down to the local level can be useful.
That's why Social Explorer - Demographic Maps is the greatest demographic tool created in the history of the universe. This tour-de-force of data aggregation and presentation is the most comprehensive, concise, and complete resource I've seen yet.

If you want to see stunning segregation...look at the black population in Houston or NY. Also, who said that Allegheny County has an aging population....the census says otherwise. And who know there was so much money in Butler.....and the North Hills look like the place to be for married couples.
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Old 06-08-2008, 06:16 PM
Status: "Fall is in the air-too soon!" (set 25 days ago)
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
68,599 posts, read 57,229,522 times
Reputation: 19412
Quote:
Originally Posted by zip95 View Post
That's why Social Explorer - Demographic Maps is the greatest demographic tool created in the history of the universe. This tour-de-force of data aggregation and presentation is the most comprehensive, concise, and complete resource I've seen yet.

If you want to see stunning segregation...look at the black population in Houston or NY. Also, who said that Allegheny County has an aging population....the census says otherwise. And who know there was so much money in Butler.....and the North Hills look like the place to be for married couples.
Here is the census bureau data from 2006:

Population over 65 yrs:
Allegheny County: 17%
PA: 15.2%
US: 12.4%

So Allegheny Co. has about 37% more elderly than the US in general.

Last edited by Katiana; 06-08-2008 at 06:21 PM.. Reason: Math error
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Old 06-08-2008, 06:23 PM
 
956 posts, read 1,577,212 times
Reputation: 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by supersoulty View Post
And, BTW... as a graduate student who has the opportunity to spend a lot of time talking to people who move here from other parts of the country, I can tell you that almost everyone I talk to who comes here thinks that Pittsburgh is one of the most segregated cities in they have ever been to. I don't know if you are taking this personally or what, but I assure you, I'm not attacking the city. Facts are facts.
Thank you for choosing Pittsburgh as your college destination. We hope you adjust well to the urban experience and choose to live here when you graduate. Maybe you can live near some of the imaginary housing projects you believe are in Penn Hills and Monroeville.
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Old 06-08-2008, 06:24 PM
 
353 posts, read 546,974 times
Reputation: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianTH View Post
Just my two cents in summary form:

Is the Pittsburgh region overall well-integrated? No.

Are there some areas within the Pittsburgh region that are reasonably well-integrated? Yes.

Is identifying the reasonably well-integrated areas within the Pittsburgh region deceptive? No, provided you don't claim they are a representative sample of the region.

Is it pointless? No, because circumstances in their immediate neighborhood can matter to people, so breaking this sort of discussion down to the local level can be useful.
I agree with everything you just said. The contention here is about whether Pittsburgh is well integrated because of a handful of eastern suburban communities, and I say... obviously not.

If you wanna go by a "the data doesn't lie" strategy, I'm fine with that.

Fact: If you have black skin in Pittsburgh, odds are very good that you live in one of the top five census tracts in terms of % of residents who are black.

Fact: Most towns in the outer suburbs that are close to the county average for racial breakdown are curiously close to areas with very high black populations.

Fact: Breaking it down and looking at the census tracts confirms the suspicion that a curious person might have, that indeed, even in towns that are close to the county average, the highest concentrations of black folks are near the boarders with towns that have very high concentrations of black folks.

Now

Educated Opinion: For such a relatively small county and city, with such a relatively small population of black people, percentage wise in the county and in terms of raw numbers in the city, it is odd that you have such high concentrations of African Americans (even though I'm not in love with that term, I'm getting tired of saying "black people, black folks, etc) when there are no other minority groups to seriously contend with in the area. You can't compare it directly to, say, New York or Houston, because the scale and demographics are very different. But when compared to other areas of similar size, this area seems to lag quite a bit when it comes to integration.

I never wanted to accuse anyone of deception. My goal was to show that the data is deceptive. But the more belligerent an attitude our friend zip decided to take, the more I became convinced that there was something deceptive going on there, intentionally or otherwise.

Sure, certain areas might seem more integrated than others, but I think the data disguises the reality on the ground. And even then, looking at the local data in a few cases doesn't account for the much greater truth of what is happening in the region, which is what my initial claim was about to begin with.
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Old 06-08-2008, 06:38 PM
 
956 posts, read 1,577,212 times
Reputation: 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Here is the census bureau data from 2006:

Population over 65 yrs:
Allegheny County: 17%
PA: 15.2%
US: 12.4%

So Allegheny Co. has about 37% more elderly than the US in general.

But if you look at the map (2000 data) Allegheny County really doesn't look that bad. In fact, it looks like Allegheny County was oldest, relative to the rest, of the state in 1960.
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Old 06-08-2008, 06:48 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles Area
3,306 posts, read 1,293,940 times
Reputation: 592
Quote:
What I find a bit funny is your ability to divine peoples races through your computer...I'd love to hear how you arrive at the conclusion that this discussion is a "bunch of whities".
I've read this forum long enough to know most of the people are white, of course they could be lying about being white?

Quote:
.... I can tell you that almost everyone I talk to who comes here thinks that Pittsburgh is one of the most segregated cities in they have ever been to.
I came to Pittsburgh for the same reason, and most people I went to school with commented about the segregation in the city also.
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Old 06-08-2008, 07:17 PM
 
956 posts, read 1,577,212 times
Reputation: 505
Quote:
Originally Posted by Humanoid View Post
I've read this forum long enough to know most of the people are white
I'm sure most of this forum is white, but that's not what you said. You said this particular discussion is uninteresting because there is only a white perspective. I wondered how you reached your, confident yet incorrect, conclusion since I personally know of at least two non-white posters participating in this very thread.
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Old 06-08-2008, 07:44 PM
 
956 posts, read 1,577,212 times
Reputation: 505
SuperSoulty,

Feel free to keep on talking while you slowly change your conclusion. Maybe no one will notice that your final opinion is precisely what I've been saying all along. You're almost there...

Insult me personally a few more times, then accuse me of being belligerent, repeat what I've been saying all along, and then claim victory....I won't tell.
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